EPA’s McCarthy: ‘Every voice needs to be in this discussion’

Of course, we only listen to normal people

h/t Richard Cumming. When he pointed to Jamie Glazov’s article I discovered the McCarthy outrage.

Lots of people have stopped listening to climate science, which observes no warming for 20 years. They are now being exhorted to stop listening to ‘climate deniers’.

US EPA chief Gina McCarthy is spouting insidious totalitarian doctrine hidden beneath a pretended admiration of democracy and camouflaged by appeals to the good of the majority. So she prepares the ground for legal restraints against honest free speech, and someone must point it out.

From Jamie Glazov at FrontPage Mag comes this lament that the US is falling into oppression of the same stripe her Russian family fled in the 1980s.

Gina McCarthy’s totalitarian attitude toward global warming sceptics parallels, of course, the Soviet mindset that forced Soviet dissidents into psychiatric hospitals to be force-fed drugs. McCarthy and her superiors in the Obama administration do not, at this point, have the power to put the sceptics they are labelling into asylums, to be administered “tranquilising” injections and immersed in ice baths, but it is clear from their own words what their desires are—and what path they are clearing for the brave new world.

Of her family’s ordeal and the modern lesson for the rest of us:

My family escaped a totalitarian hell to come to a free country to now face, in the most tragic and bizarre sense, the ideological cousins of our tormentors. The Left and its totalitarian gate-keepers are now in solid power here, slowly but surely building the prison walls and “psychiatric” spaces designed for the treatment of abnormal skeptics. Gina McCarthy and her ilk must be called out for exactly who they are — and for what they are intending to do.

Where are our journalists?

After years of battling disgusting “hate speech”, with resultant new legal restraints applied to free speech in many free countries, it’s easy now for some to say that objections to action against climate change must similarly be prevented (as though they’re just as morally repugnant), since lack of action threatens everyone’s safety. Allegedly—but never mind the logic, feel the hate.

Free speech loses again, so it’s astonishing to see in New Zealand only your humble correspondent taking up an inky cudgel against this latest outrage.

This YouTube video starts at McCarthy’s “normal people” admission at the end of her address.

[2:14:01] When I put a report out on acting on climate, like we did yesterday, that shows how dramatically our world will change if we don’t act, and just the benefits we can deliver if we do, I am doing that not to push back on climate deniers. You can have fun doing that if you want, but I’ve batted my head against the wall too many times and if the science already hasn’t changed their mind it never will.

But in any democracy, it’s not them that carries the day; it is normal human beings that haven’t put their stake in to politics above science; it’s normal human beings that want us to do the right thing—and we will if you help us. Thank you. [2:14:45]

Gina McCarthy

Gina McCarthy, US EPA Administrator. Demonising dissidents.

In the video of McCarthy’s address to the summit, I discovered that, just seconds before she asserted ‘climate deniers’ were not ‘normal’ and shouldn’t participate in the discussion, she had surprisingly said just the reverse: that everyone should be allowed in.

[2:12:36] But as always in a democracy, every voice is supposed to count, but every voice needs to be in this discussion.[2:12:44]

Among normal people, saying one thing and immediately contradicting oneself is generally seen as abnormal.

Climate rights denier

She knows the principle of free speech very well, but she’s denying it for the sake of her personal agenda. She’s a climate rights denier.

The Public Health and Climate Change Summit meeting was streamed live on June 23, 2015. This is how the White House promoted it:

On June 23, the White House will convene a summit on Public Health and Climate Change. The event will bring together health and medical professionals, academics, and other stakeholders to empower people and communities with the science-based information and tools they need to protect public health in the face of climate change. The discussion will focus on the impacts of climate change and underscoring the important role the public health community can play in communicating and preventing these impacts.

So they filled a room with health and public administration leaders all keen as mustard to hear how to stay plugged in to the public teat and secure their precious funding. In what was not the surprise of the year, not a dissenting murmur was heard.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2015/06/23/White-House-hosts-climate-summit.html:

People seeking to change the world filled the Byrd Polar Research Center at Ohio State University on Tuesday. Concerned about climate change, they came together for the White House Public Health and Climate Change Summit, with scientists and public-health officials participating in panel discussions about how climate change impacts health.

http://www.publichealthnewswire.org/?p=13330:

“We are not here today to debate whether climate change is real. We are not here to debate whether or not human activity is contributing to that. These questions have been settled by scientists,” said Surgeon General Vivek Murthy during his remarks. “But we are here today as public health leaders, as policy makers and as citizens of the planet to figure out what we are in fact going to do about climate change.”

Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Gina McCarthy underscored the importance of action calling climate change the biggest challenge of our time. She said it’s also the biggest health challenge of our time.

Also reported here and here.

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Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

[McCarthy] – “if the science already hasn’t changed their mind it never will.”

Actually, the science has changed the mind of at least one scientist. Chris de Freitas, a climate scientist at the University of Auckland, N.Z., and a former supporter of Kyoto, wrote:

“At first I accepted that increases in human-caused additions of carbon dioxide and methane in the atmosphere would … lead to dangerous ‘global warming,’ but with … the results of research, I formed the view that … it is unlikely that the man-made changes are drivers of significant climate variation….

… the billions of dollars committed to GW research and lobbying … could be better spent on uncontroversial and very real environmental problems (such as air pollution, poor sanitation, provision of clean water and improved health services) that we know affect tens of millions of people.”

http://www.climatechangedispatch.com/papal-nonsense.html

Plenty of others who have had to change their mind after delving into the science (rather than take the pronouncements at face value) but not in the direction McCarthy thinks. Classic instances are David Evans and Joanne Nova.

Rather less classic, but in the same direction, is me.

Mike Jowsey
Guest
Mike Jowsey

But in any democracy, it’s not them that carries the day; it is normal human beings that haven’t put their stake in to politics above science

Pot meet kettle. Tis her methinks who has driven her stake in to politics above science. Which is precisely why nobody there wanted to discuss science – it was all about politics.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>‘Every voice needs to be in this discussion’ One voice that needs to be in this discussion, even though deceased, is Ernst Georg Beck’s. Hard to know where to start with this. Dr Tim Ball perhaps: ************************************************* ‘Create The Facts You Want’ – Opinion by Dr. Tim Ball Two critical situations were central to control of atmospheric CO2 levels. We know Guy Stewart Callendar, A British steam engineer, cherry-picked the low readings from 90,000 19th century atmospheric CO2 measures. This not only established a low pre-industrial level, but also altered the trend of atmospheric levels. (Figure 1) Beck was the first to analyze in detail the 19th century data. It was data collected for scientific attempts to measure precisely the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. It began in 1812, triggered by Priestly’s work on atmospheric oxygen, and was part of the scientific effort to quantify all atmospheric gases. There was no immediate political motive. Beck did not cherry-pick the results, but examined the method, location and as much detail as possible for each measure, in complete contrast to what Callendar and Wigley did. The IPCC had to show that, · Increases in… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

180 YEARS OF ATMOSPHERIC CO2 GAS ANALYSIS BY CHEMICAL METHODS

by Ernst-Georg Beck (2007)

ABSTRACT
More than 90,000 accurate chemical analyses of CO2 in air since 1812 are summarised. The historic chemical data reveal that changes in CO2 track changes in temperature, and therefore climate in contrast to the simple, monotonically increasing CO2 trend depicted in the post-1990 literature on climate-change. Since 1812, the CO2 concentration in northern hemispheric air has fluctuated exhibiting three high level
maxima around 1825, 1857 and 1942 the latter showing more than 400 ppm. Between 1857 and 1958, the Pettenkofer process was the standard analytical method for determining atmospheric carbon dioxide levels, and usually achieved an accuracy better than 3%. These determinations were made by several scientists of Nobel Prize level distinction. Following Callendar (1938), modern climatologists have generally ignored the historic determinations of CO2, despite the techniques being standard text book procedures in several different disciplines. Chemical methods were discredited as unreliable choosing only few which fit the assumption of a climate CO2 connection.

http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/files/documents/CO2%20Gas%20Analysis-Ernst-Georg%20Beck.pdf

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal Of Our Time

by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc.

Spring/Summer 2007 21st CENTURY Science & Technology

Figure 4 [page 7]
MOTHER OF ALL CO2 HOCKEY CURVES
Concentration of CO2 in air bubbles from the pre-industrial ice from Siple, Antarctica (open squares), and in the 1958-1986 atmosphere at Mauna Loa, Hawaii (solid line). In (a), the original Siple data are given without assuming an 83-year younger age of air than the age of the enclosing ice. In (b), the same data are shown after an arbitrary correction of the age of air.
Source: Adapted from Friedli et al. 1986 and Neftel et al. 1985

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles%202007/20_1-2_CO2_Scandal.pdf

From Friends of Science
http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=200

Daily Media Review
Guest

I saw that article too RT and it’s bang on. It’s not all doom and gloom on the EPA front though, the US Supreme Court has just thrown a major spanner in their works:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/29/supreme-court-slows-obama-war-on-coal/

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/06/29/scotus-epa-you-unreasonably-interpreted-the-clean-air-act-n2018820

Robin Pittwood
Guest

McCarthy talks as if she knows the science. She has shown herself to be very ignorant in front of congressional hearings. In one instance, when she was making a case for carbon dioxide emission controls she was asked how much CO2 was already present in the air. She confessed that she did not know that number. At that time it was about 390ppm. And as far as I was aware anybody interested in global warming would have known that. But Gina McCarthy did not. At that time Jackson was the boss and McCarthy head of air quality.

Later when Jackson moved on and McCarthy was made boss she was making a case for increased funding for climate change work. She was asked if she was aware that the climate models were tracking a lot hotter than recorded temperature measurements. Once again she confessed that she wasn’t aware of that.

Robin Pittwood
Guest

This is McCarthy being questioned by Sessions in a hearing. She is requesting a budget increase and Sessions questions her understanding of global warming etc.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=24DP1uG-MEM

Andy
Guest
Andy

This argument is just an extension of the modern meaning of “tolerance” and “inclusiveness”

I.e we will tolerate you as long as your views are in line with the current dogma

Incidentally, from today we need to be careful we don’t upset anyone as the Harmful Digital communications bill has just passed in Nz

This means any of us could be taken to court for upsetting anyone in blog posts or comments.

Of course, this will likely be a one way street. Anyone can insult “deniers” with anything they like, including outright lies, because “deniers” are not normal people.

As you were….

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

[Beck] = “A major issue regarding the IPCC approach to linking climate and CO2 is the assumption that prior to the industrial revolution the level of atmospheric CO2 was in an equilibrium state of about 280 ppm, around which little or no variation occurred.”

Hence the need to “get rid of the Medieval Warm Period” (Jonathan Overpeck).

Daily Media Review
Guest

Andy. Re: the Harmful Digital communications bill. I wonder if we’re still allowed to call the EPA’s climate change policies McCarthyism.

Andy
Guest
Andy

That video Robin posted is an eye-opener. She doesn’t know whether the models are right or wrong, but apparently that is irrelevant.

The “science” is clear.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Jaworowski on the Malthusians behind the formation of anti-CO2 ideology:

• Maurice Strong, elaborated on the idea of sustainable development, which, he said, can be implemented by deliberate “quest of poverty . . . reduced resource consumption . . . and set levels of mortality control.”

• Timothy Wirth, U.S. Undersecretary of State for Global Issues, seconded Strong’s statement: “We have got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic policy and environmental policy.”

• Richard Benedick, a deputy assistant secretary of state who headed policy divisions of the U.S. State Department, stated: “A global warming treaty must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the [enhanced] greenhouse effect.”

# # #

1) I don’t think humanity has ever been or ever will be on a “quest of poverty”.

2) These guys are/were crooks.

3) McCarthy is just following form.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Jaworowski: Direct CO2 Measurements in the Atmosphere “We thus find ourselves in the situation that the entire theory of man-made global warming—with its repercussions in science, and its important consequences for politics and the global economy—is based on ice core studies that provided a false picture of the atmospheric CO2 levels. Meanwhile, more than 90,000 direct measurements of CO2 in the atmosphere, carried out in America, Asia, and Europe between 1812 and 1961, with excellent chemical methods (accuracy better than 3 percent), were arbitrarily rejected. These measurements had been published in 175 technical papers. For the past three decades, these well-known direct CO2 measurements, recently compiled and analyzed by Ernst-Georg Beck (Beck 2006a, Beck 2006b, Beck 2007), were completely ignored by climatologists—and not because they were wrong. Indeed, these measurements were made by top scientists, including two Nobel Prize winners, using the techniques that are standard textbook procedures in chemistry, biochemistry, botany, hygiene, medicine, nutrition, and ecology. The only reason for rejection was that these measurements did not fit the hypothesis of anthropogenic climatic warming. I regard this as perhaps the greatest scientific scandal of our time.” # # # Perhaps the greatest… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”That video Robin posted is an eye-opener” We can look into her mind. Breitbart has the video and full transcript: ‘Jeff Sessions Leaves EPA Chief Unable to Justify Money Grab’ At a Senate Environment and Public Works Committee hearing, Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL) grilled EPA chief Gina McCarthy and left her unable to justify her money grab, showing that she could not explain whether climate change models were correct or not. The full transcript of the amazing exchange follows: SESSIONS: I think EPA this year should be flat spending, or at least no more than 2.5 percent increase, you’re proposing a 6 percent increase. I mean, where does the money come from? Are you proposing to break the limitations? McCARTHY: It is part of the president’s proposal, which is not going to buy into the bad policy of sequestration, but he’s designed the budget that can accommodate this. Senator, the one thing I want to say— SESSIONS: Inflation rate in the United States is about 2 percent, so you want to have a three times the inflation rate increase in spending. I would suggest that when we go to our states, the group… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

[McCarthy] – “But as always in a democracy, every voice is supposed to count, but every voice needs to be in this discussion”

[The voice of McCarthy] = “I don’t know, I don’t know” “I cannot answer”

HemiMck
Guest
HemiMck

“Perhaps the greatest scientific scandal of our time ”

That paper is dated 2007. How have we not seen this before. It has to be a game changer. How many times have we seem “pre- industrial 280” quoted. This kicks a leg of the stool away.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”That paper is dated 2007. How have we not seen this before. It has to be a game changer” Yes it is a game changer and it was at the time too. I read all this when it came out but remember this was at the time of AR4 so it was somewhat gazumped, then there was ClimateGate, then there was Copenhagen. But this had been building up for some years (not just Beck), it was one of the things that turned me into an ultra-MMCC sceptic by then. I managed to catch the zeitgeist as it was forming then and I’m certainly not going to let it rest now. Beck has been the topic of heated debate in blogs. You will find of course, that he has been pre, de, and post bunked on manic blogs like Deltoid. Someone tried to get debate on Beck going at Hot Topic and got “talk to the hand” treatment from what I remember. Heated debate among sceptics too on this blog (me vs someone I can’t remember) around the passage of CO2 molecules through the ice matrix and aging, although we were arguing from the… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

“You will find of course, that he [Beck] has been pre, de, and post bunked on manic blogs like Deltoid” They in turn will inevitably point to the likes of Rabett Run where Eli Rabett has comprehensively whack-a-moled Beck (so he thinks) viz.: “Beck is seriously overoptimistic about the accuracy and precision of the methods used before CD Keeling’s introduction of the IR absorption method to quantify CO2 in the atmosphere. The best of the older methods in the 1950s could barely discern the seasonal cycle.” http://rabett.blogspot.co.nz/2006/10/amateur-night.html Baloney when you look at the cycles in Beck. There’s even a monthly cycle. Rabett ends with: “I am simply going to quote Keeling’s Epilog which explains why Beck’s analysis is wrong.” [see quote] The quote includes “discrepancies between ground-level and aircraft sampling” and praise for “new manometric and infrared studies” i.e. Keeling’s Mauna Loa – his own work. Well, now there’s the OCO-2 satellite too: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2014/19dec_oco/ “Where OCO-2 really excels is the sheer amount of data being collected within a day, about one million measurements across a narrow swath” Clearly Mauna Loa (one spot on the globe) is not representative of global atmospheric carbon dioxide… Read more »

HemiMck
Guest
HemiMck

Yes if it shows nothing else it certainly demonstrates that ice numbers are unreliable in the extreme.

I note the 1922 to 1932 saw a medium rate rise in CO2 ; 1932 to 1942 showed a rapid rise to a plus 400 peak followed by a steep decline to the early Mauna levels.

This has to suggest that we see a similar a repeat in the cycle within the next decade or so. That would surely have to be the end scam. I live in hope.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

I should point out that Eli Rabett neglects the real issue – ice core CO2 vs atmospheric CO2.

He is merely making a case (such as it is) in terms of two different techniques of atm CO2 measurement.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

More recently Rabett has posted ‘Eli Thanks Ernst Beck (Shock! Horror!)’

http://rabett.blogspot.co.nz/2012/01/eli-thanks-ernst-beck-shock-horror.html

Basically, a CO2 researcher was unaware of the historical measurements that could have been referenced in “CO2 Megaparis: An intensive study of CO2 emissions from Paris megacity (in collaboration with the EU project MEGAPOLI),”

Paris CO2 examples:

# Jardin Luxembourg (major but still tiny green spot in the center of Paris) 425ppm
# Place de la Bastille: 430ppm
# Place de l’Etoile (the crazy huge roundabout around the Arc de Triomphe): 508ppm
# And the winner was Place de la Nation: 542ppm (ie 160ppm over background!).

None of this makes a jot of difference at TOA, CO2 has overshot by over a factor of 2 (0.6 vs 1.5+ W.m-2).

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”None of this [Paris CO2] makes a jot of difference at TOA”

Neither does it even show up in OCO-2:

Click to embiggen
http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/mainco2mappia18934.jpg

The only indication of elevated levels of CO2 in Europe, at all, are east of the Adriatic. And then only minor in comparison to say, Southern Africa.

And yet the the Paris levels are described as “CO2 pollution”. What a fraud.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”There was also an aircraft-borne study that called in to New Zealand a short time ago”

No that was gravity waves or something – no CO2 sampling.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

This is the CO2 graph from Beck that, in particular, ruffles feathers at Deltoid (“dodgy” apparently):

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/wp-content/blogs.dir/443/files/2012/04/i-ee24549320f0431f76b817189dfd4164-beckco2.png

Obviously chemical measurement on regional scale should have been continued in conjunction with IR-Spect for some time rather than just dropped by climate science (it was used by hundreds of scientists world-wide) or at least the regional studies overlapped with IR-Spect to gain some comparison. Either that or there is actually an overlap in studies and we’re not told about it (lost in the mists of time).

Industry uses IR-Spect CO2 analyzers everywhere. This instrument for example from Quantek:

Model 908 Portable CO2 Analyzer for Spot Checks
http://www.quantekinstruments.com/model-908-portable-co2-analyzer-for-process-research/

Basically, what OCO-2 is “seeing” is Beck’s “local effective concentration”, a “spot check” which is nothing like Mauna Loa (as elegant as that is). Moot now given the lack of CO2 climate forcing at TOA.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”Obviously chemical measurement on regional scale should have been continued in conjunction with IR-Spect for some time rather than just dropped by climate science (it was used by hundreds of scientists world-wide) or at least the regional studies overlapped with IR-Spect to gain some comparison. Either that or there is actually an overlap in studies and we’re not told about it (lost in the mists of time).” I stand corrected – by Beck (2008) ’50 YEARS OF CONTINUOUS MEASUREMENT OF CO2 ON MAUNA LOA’ by Ernst-Georg Beck, Dipl.Biol. (2008) http://www.biokurs.de/treibhaus/180CO2/08_Beck-2.pdf 5. KEELING, CALLENDAR AND HISTORICAL MEASUREMENTS [page 1025] As a consequence of his rejection of the old chemical methods there is no comparative measurement against the old measuring standards known by Keeling. But this is not standard practice in a period introducing a new technology. Figure 7 displays the directly measured CO2 data of the northern hemisphere in the transition period 1940–1975 [25]. In red we see the historical measurements prior to Keeling using the wet chemical procedures. A sharp drop up to 1950 can be seen. The blue line represents the continuous data from Mauna Loa with the modern physical method. There… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”this [no overlap] is not standard practice in a period introducing a new technology”

An indictment but hey! – this IS climate science.

HemiMck
Guest
HemiMck

What is absolutely clear is that IPCC’s smoothed curve from 280 pre-industrial clipped on to the Mauna data has to be the most scientifically dodgy – and also most unlikely – historical CO2 curve.

That in turn means that alternative hypothesis that temperature drives CO2, rather than CO2 driving temperature, as you would expect from Henry’s law, is back on the table.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”What is absolutely clear is that IPCC’s smoothed curve from 280 pre-industrial clipped on to the Mauna data has to be the most scientifically dodgy – and also most unlikely – historical CO2 curve.” Dead right Hemi. I’ve been saying this for years except I use the word “bogus”. Glad you see it now too. My view is that it is only the very early part of the Mauna Loa Keeling curve that is not to be relied upon (and forget the bogus 83 yr ice core fudge fit), this is over the time before NDIR (IR-Spect) technology matured. The Chemical-NDIR transition period is all important as Beck highlights but climate science is not concerned with best practice as we all know. Beck states of this period “Keeling’s values measured on Mauna Loa are roughly lower by 12 ppm as the corresponding data measured with the old chemical method without using latitude and other error correction” You need a decent graph of the Keeling curve with grid lines to see this. Most graphs neglect the grid lines. Here’s a good graph: http://www.planetforlife.com/images/keeling2.gif At 1960 the datapoint on the trend line is 316 ppm.… Read more »

HemiMck
Guest
HemiMck

Leaving aside the absolute vales of CO2 according to Beck, and how they tie to Mauna, the turning points using same technology should be reliable. The three 20th century turning points are pretty dramatic.

I’m looking for any flattening in Mauna numbers, which after nearly two decades of nil temperature change should not be a surprise. That would be a real reason for panic amongst the congregation of the church of climatology.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

[Me] >”and forget the bogus 83 yr ice core fudge fit” [Hemi] >”That in turn means that alternative hypothesis that temperature drives CO2, rather than CO2 driving temperature, as you would expect from Henry’s law, is back on the table.” From Google Books (link too long – just search the title below): ‘Magic Universe: A Grand Tour of Modern Science’ Carbon Cycle – Exactly how does it interact with the global climate? By Nigel Calder Can’t copy but the following sections are a MUST READ: Bubbles in the polar ice. The leaves of Big Betty [Beck-type atm CO2 fluctuations that ice cores don’t identify – see below] Which drives which? For the lazy, I’ve transcribed a very important section from the birch leaves section. “In 1999 Wagner and her colleagues declared that, in a warm spell around 9500 years ago, the level of carbon dioxide experienced by the birch leaves was about 350 parts per million—-the same as measured at Mauna Loa in 1987, and much higher than the 260 parts per million or so reported from the ice core. Moreover the birch leaves indicated an increase of 65 parts per million in… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”I’m looking for any flattening in Mauna numbers, which after nearly two decades of nil temperature change should not be a surprise.” Yes, to be expected in fact. But I’m not going to start looking until after 2020 (maybe it will be sooner but I don’t think so). The current nil atm temperature change is due to the oscillatory component in temperature. The secular trend in atm temperature has only just undergone a negative inflexion (Macias et al 2014) but it is still in positive phase i.e. still plenty of ocean heat keeping the secular trend in atm temperature rising and still plenty of solar energy (including ENSO activity) to keep ocean heat rising. That atm secular trend should peak sometime after 2020 when the solar deficit starts to kick in but ocean temperature is also a factor i.e. ocean heat and temperature MUST peak BEFORE atm temperature peaks and both BEFORE CO2 peaks. Because of this reason I watch OHC numbers for a leading indicator – not atm temperature or Mauna Loa CO2 numbers. The OHC metric is skewed by the Indian ocean, The Pacific is cooling. At peak atm temperature and… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”looking for any flattening in Mauna numbers”

First thing to look for IMO is just an inflexion similar to what has appeared in the atm secular trend (Macias et al). Possibly show up in the next 5-10 yrs or so, maybe sooner but I don’t think so.

A flattening is a long way off IMO and far too soon to be looking for that. Could be wrong of course given the turns in the Beck data but they were not at a major peak in ocean and atmosphere heat. Which is what we are looking for too but not there yet either.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Why didn’t we read this in Laudato Si?

“Everyone knows that many opinions today considered ‘scientific’ are not irrefutable or incontrovertible”

– Bishop Mario Toso, who co-wrote the first draft of the papal encyclical on the environment, Laudato Si’

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/06/30/encyclical-ghostwriter-pope-francis-did-not-intend-to-canonize-scientific-theories/

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”Why didn’t we read this in Laudato Si?”

Perhaps this is the reason:

‘Schellnhuber Boasts Of Having Skeptics Excluded From Participating In Drafting “Laudato Si” Encyclical’

– See more at: http://notrickszone.com/2015/06/27/schellnhuber-boasts-of-having-skeptics-excluded-from-participating-in-drafting-laudato-si-encyclical/#sthash.Td06CK7g.dpuf

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

‘Pope Francis’ Encyclical on Global Warming Fails’ by James H. Rust, June 23, 2015 [Excerpt] Paragraphs listed under the sub-heading “Climate as a common good”. Paragraph 23 is written as follows: “The climate is a common good, belonging to all and meant for all. At the global level, it is a complex system linked to many of the essential conditions for human life. A very solid scientific consensus indicates that we are presently witnessing a disturbing warming of the climatic system. In recent decades this warming has been accompanied by a constant rise in the sea level and, it would appear, by an increase of extreme weather events, even if a scientifically determinable cause cannot be assigned to each particular phenomenon. Humanity is called to recognize the need for changes of lifestyle, production and consumption, in order to combat this warming or at least the human causes which produce or aggravate it. It is true that there are other factors (such as volcanic activity, variations in the earth’s orbit and axis, the solar cycle), yet a number of scientific studies indicate that most global warming in recent decades is due to the great… Read more »

Alexander K
Guest
Alexander K

It is worrying that the USA, which promotes itself as the favoured residence of democracy, bravery and freedom for all people, when it is becoming patently obvious that extreme ideologues are rampant there. Political correctness and other dangerous silliness seems to be fully entrenched in the Obama administration and is being pushed relentlessly. I would suggest that this woman should have visible health warnings attached to her person, but that would make me guilty of things I see her as being guilty of.
The retreat into God-centered medieval thought patterns by the current Papal administration is equally worrying – it’s not too much of a mental leap for them to return to the burning of heretics.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

‘The Pope’s Climate Letter Urges ‘Dialogue with Everyone,’ So Why Did Vatican Single Out and Harass Us?’ Read how the words coming from the Vatican are the exact opposite of their deeds. By Tom Harris An encyclical letter is considered to be the most significant form of papal teaching for the world’s 1.2 billion Roman Catholics. Tragically, the June 18 encyclical letter on the environment from Pope Francis is riddled with contradictions and mistakes. In the letter, “On Care for a Common Home,” Francis emphasized the importance of considering “a variety of opinions” about the problems we face: “Given the complexity of the ecological crisis and its multiple causes, we need to realize that the solutions will not emerge from just one way of interpreting and transforming reality. … No branch of the sciences and no form of wisdom can be left out … this Encyclical welcomes dialogue with everyone.” Nice sentiment. But not only has the Vatican failed to meet this standard, the members of the Heartland Institute delegation that traveled to Rome to urge the Vatican to reconsider its position on climate change and sustainable development in fact received the polar… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Alexander, there’s nothing “God-centered” in Laudato Si which actually means “Praise be to you” – not God. This is the Socialist/Marxist vein but without the industry (eco-socialism). I suggest that rather than God-centred or even Man-centred (“you”) it is actually Gaia-centred or just neo-paganism. This requires a small modification to your statement (if I may):

“The retreat into [Gaia]-centered medieval thought patterns by the current Papal administration is equally worrying”

Andy
Guest
Andy

The Pope now has Naomi Klein as an adviser. I can’t see this working out well

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

>”The Pope now has Naomi Klein as an adviser. I can’t see this working out well”

Neither can I but this changes everything (heh).

Talk about mixed messages, backpedaling and weaseling from one voice and science-is-settled change-the-world from another.

Andy
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Andy

We can just watch the atheist left with all their rainbow flags cozing up to the Catholic Church and stock up on popcorn.

Should be fun.

Alexander K
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Alexander K

Richard C:
I agree with you, but to explain my ‘God-centered’ comment:
Pre-scientific thinking was ‘God-centred’ in that, without any notions of science, all that happened in life was pre-determined by whatever gods controlled individual or group life. This includes pantheistic cultures which explained all phenomena, seen and unseen, as being in the control of various specific gods, which is true of pre-European Maori and other Polynesian cultures.
Man’s need for religion is almost universal and may explain the success of the global warming/climate change scam.
It’s bloody scary to watch the current Pope dial the clock back so far and so abruptly!
Andy,
Neither can I!!!

Andy
Guest
Andy

Melanie Philips wrote in her book “The World Turned Upside Down” that the world has become more irrational and fearsome than during the heyday of Judeo-Christian cultures, contrary to what the secularists would have us believe

It’s a good book though she does get a bit bogged down in the religion towards the end of the book.

“Climate Change” gets covered in this book too,

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Nice explanation Alexander. Except Roman Catholicism usurped pantheism, it’s centred on one god only (actually the trinity) and every other is/was subjugated. So because of this, prior to the Enlightenment the RC church and Pope assumed superior knowledge and made pronouncements on subjects that they really didn’t know anything about but could impose by force. Basically the European/Near East historical sequence was: pantheism => pre-Enlightenment Christian God + Papal pronouncements to Roman Catholicism (imposed by force on everyone) => post-Enlightenment science + RC pronouncements to Catholicism. The RC church could no longer impose their pronouncements on everyone by force and still can’t. So now the Vatican is reduced to making an appeal to all people and religions, including atheistic Greens, in an effort to widen their base and standing. The Popes encyclical is addressed to EVERYONE, not just Roman Catholics and not just the Christian Catholic (“Catholic” is the entire Christian church, not just Roman). Schellnhuber is atheist. There is no god in his thinking except Gaia. Therefore the current Papal appeal (Laudato Si) cannot be a “retreat into God-centered medieval thought patterns”. Yes it is based (extremely loosely) on biblical instruction but… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

‘Climate Marchers Gather to Show Rousing Support for Pope’ By ELISABETTA POVOLEDOJUNE 28, 2015 NYT VATICAN CITY — When Pope Francis appeared on the balcony of the Apostolic Palace, where he delivers an address each Sunday, he was met by the usual cheers and by an unusual forest of bright green oversized paper leaves. Had he been able to read what was written on the leaves — which he could not because he was too far away — the pope would have found quotes from “Laudato Si’,” or “Praise Be to You,” his encyclical on the environment published this month. The leaves were among the colorful props carried by a hodgepodge of organizations — mostly religious or environmental — that marched to the Vatican on Sunday to thank the pope for his forceful message on climate change, and to demand that world leaders heed his call for environmental justice and climate action. “We want the pope to know we’re behind him 100 percent,” said Tafara Dandadzi, a student in environmental law and governance at North-West University in South Africa, who came to Rome for the march and to take part in a seminar… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”the spirit of humanity is rising to recognize that we have to care for the earth”

In biblical teaching, the “spirit of humanity” is “enmity” to the spirit of God, the creator of the universe.

That is not to say that someone who seeks the spirit of God, rather than the carnal human spirit, should not care for the environment (or that care regards CO2 is “pollution”). However that care includes “dominion over it [the earth]” i.e. it’s resources are for our use. But in the end (the Revelation), the creator does as he chooses with it eventually anyway – and it’s not pretty.

Greenies flocking to the Vatican might not be so enthusiastic after reading the biblical book of Revelation I suspect.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”Sunday’s march [Vatican City] reprised the spirit, albeit on a much smaller scale, of the People’s Climate March that brought 300,000 people to the streets of New York in September.”

Some spirit:

‘The #PeoplesClimate March exposes the Climate Campaign for the Socialists they are’

“For those of us opposed to the climate campaign, it should come as no surprise that the movement is full of avowed Marxists. Pushing policies to deal with “climate change” is yet another way of trying to control “the masses”, while the elites hypocritically live the good life and jet around the world to inform us of “our” duty to make sacrifices to save out planet. It’s the same with any Marxist movement.”

http://www.redstate.com/2014/09/24/peoplesclimate-march-exposes-climate-campaign-socialists/

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

“>We want the pope to know we’re behind him 100 percent,” said Tafara Dandadzi, a student in environmental law and governance at North-West University in South Africa

Although he might not like “law and governance” of any sort by the Pope if history is anything to go by.

But I’m wondering, was the Pope Tafara’s leader before Laudato Si? At that time was he behind him 0%? 30%? 60%? 100%?

And is he REALLY behind the Pope 100% now? Which implies being behind the Roman Catholic church 100% too of course and everything it teaches, preaches, demands and does e.g. worship God. All the doctrine, services, ceremonies and sacraments? Case in point: the Eucharist.

I doubt it. Unless he was RC to start with I don’t think Tafara has thought this through.

Andy
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Andy

Questions for all these hangers on to the new Roman Catholic Church:

Do you support the RC positions on abortion, contraception and homosexuality?

No, thought not.

It’s just like “pick n mix” lollies. Just choose the bits you like

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

Just choose the bits you like……….and be behind them 100%.

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

Correction. A better generalization might be:

>”Basically the European/Near East historical sequence was: pantheism [& paganism] =>”

Those two are not one and the same. Schellnhuber would be comfortable in one but not the other.

Andy
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Andy

Ironically, James Lovelock, father of the Gaia theory, wrote of wind turbines as “monuments to a failed civilisation”

I think he wrote this in a letter to a local paper so I don’t have a link.

[You have good recall, Andy. Lovelock’s letter is dated 12 December, 2012, and was submitted in connection with a planning application to the Torridge District Council for a wind turbine. It was publicised by Heartland, shortly afterwards by Bishop Hill, then many others. – RT]

Andy
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Andy

Note that Marx wasn’t against exploitation of natural resources, he thought that the Earth’s resources should be used to empower people.

True communism also didn’t imply the overpowering state ruling our lives, more an idea that property was shared and available to all.

So his utopian ideas are slightly different to the environmentalists ideas. The “Cultural Marxist” is another beast too.

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

Exactly Andy, that is why I refer to eco-Socialism as Marxism without the industry. Maybe Stalinism or Maoism would be better in respect to an overpowering state but those still had an industrial base symbolised by the hammer.

And the idea of property being shared by all is why there’s the attempted affinity with Christianity. The early Jewish Christians shared and gave liberally in accordance with doctrine but among themselves – not everyone else. They were also aided from afar by other new non-Jewish Christians e.g. Macedonia, but mainly due to their hardship and persecution by the Jews. Eventually many forced to live in exile in Cappadocian caves and suchlike.

Close to the environment, actually right inside it, but I don’t think it would have been thought of as utopia by the inhabitants..

Andy
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Andy

We live in interesting times. The online magazine Spiked-Online was formed from an old rag called “Living Marxism” and is staffed by former members of the Revolutionary Communist Party of GB, such as Brendan O’Neill and Mick Hume.

It is a million miles away from mainstream leftism. To me, it reads like a conservative rag, but very much based around the sanctity of free speech.

Spiked is very much a favorite of mine

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

The symbolism of Roman Catholicism is telling. For example why are there two obelisks at St Peter’s, a large one in the square and the other small one inside the basilica? If you read the background on those obelisk’s, or obelisks anywhere whatever their origin, it’s very clear they have no place in Christianity, so what are they doing there? Similar with the huge obelisk in Washington DC, USA (“one country under God”). Note the Abraham Lincoln monument is placed facing it even though he didn’t adopt the Free Masonry that put it there. So is the White House, So is the Senate. City ordinances restrict building height so that no building is higher than the obelisk. If you go to Washington there’s no skyscrapers there, it’s weird after visiting New York or Chicago. An obelisk in the middle of the City of London too, and New York’s Central park. In terms of sovereignty, Vatican City, Washington DC, and City of London are on a par, New York State has a different legal system to anywhere else in the US. All have centrally placed obelisks in common. These jurisdictions either obtained the monoliths… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

>”This [obelisk] obsession alone arouses my suspicions of anything emanating from these enclaves.”

Environmental Protection Agency
1200 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20460

Washington DC is a Federally owned District. The EPA is a Federal agency. Obama is bypassing the US Congress of State representatives via the EPA. Because of the EPA overreach, States, which have a degree of independent sovereignty, are suing the EPA:

12 States Sue Obama Administration for Regulatory ‘Overreach’
http://dailysignal.com/2014/08/07/twelve-states-sue-epa-destructive-regulations/

This is not the one that was recently successful. These 12 are effectively “United States” against the Federation. It really is bizarre the way all this is going in the USA.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

The recently successful Supreme Court ruling was Michigan and 22 other states. ‘Supreme Court: EPA unreasonably interpreted the Clean Air Act’ http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/29/politics/supreme-court-epa-emissions/ So 23 “United” States in this court action and 12 in another. The following is the States independent reactions in terms of their respective lawmaking: ‘States’ Reactions to Proposed EPA Greenhouse Gas Emissions Standards’ Melanie Condon and Jocelyn Durkay 6/30/2015 http://www.ncsl.org/research/energy/states-reactions-to-proposed-epa-greenhouse-gas-emissions-standards635333237.aspx Regulatory Authority While there are currently emission limits on power plants for mercury and arsenic, there are no limits on carbon dioxide. In a 2007 U.S. Supreme Court Case, Massachusetts v. EPA, the court determined that the agency could regulate carbon dioxide emissions if it was able to conclude that the gas endangered public health or the environment. In 2009 EPA issued this “endangerment finding” for carbon dioxide. 2015 State Action So far in the 2015 session, legislatures in 31 states introduced 89 bills or resolutions related to the Clean Power Plan and power plants carbon dioxide emissions regulations. Specifically, 24 states have introduced 60 bills and seven states have enacted legislation (see chart below). An additional 18 states have introduced 29 nonbinding resolutions and 11 of these states have… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Utility Air Regulatory Group v. Environmental Protection Agency Linked with: Virginia v. Environmental Protection Agency American Chemistry Council v. Environmental Protection Agency Coalition for Responsible Regulation v. Environmental Protection Agency Energy-Intensive Manufacturers Working Group on Greenhouse Gas Regulation v. Environmental Protection Agency Southeastern Legal Foundation v. Environmental Protection Agency Texas v. Environmental Protection Agency Chamber of Commerce of the United States v. Environmental Protection Agency Judgment: Affirmed in part and reversed in part SCOTUSblog Coverage Opinion analysis: EPA mostly wins, but with criticism http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/utility-air-regulatory-group-v-environmental-protection-agency/ 15 “United” States supported the EPA. This was a narrow squeak, PR was very important: ‘Supreme Court to consider EPA’s authority to regulate greenhouse gases’ Utility Air Regulatory Group v. EPA , which deals with “stationary sources” such as power plants and factories, could end up being more about PR than CO2. Both sides agree that the outcome will not affect the agency’s rules governing emissions from motor vehicles or plans underway to control new power plants. And a victory could be seen as an affirmation of Obama’s authority to move boldly on environmental regulations in the midst of a gridlocked Congress. But here’s another area of agreement: Even… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Interesting post at Junk Science on the role of judges in determining the course of EPA reach cases: ‘ATTENTION, Phillip Hamburger says I am wrong about Michigan v EPA–Chevron may be in danger’ Posted on July 2, 2015 by john1282 http://junkscience.com/2015/07/02/attention-phillip-hamburger-says-i-am-wrong-about-michigan-v-epa-chevron-may-be-in-danger/ We complain here at JS that judicial deference to agency interpretive discretion under the jurisprudence of Chevron v Natural Resources Defense Council (1984) gives agencies waaaaaayyyy too much power, actually making them a legislative player. Last year I got all excited when Phillip Hamburger, Professor of Law at Columbia, agreed with us that administrative law use of Chevron to allow agency hegemony was a bad deal in a book titled Is Administrative Law Unlawful?. Hamburger said it is because it violates the proper delineation of legislative power under Article I of the US Constitution. It gives an article II agency article I powers. That violates the constitutional seperation of powers intent. Now Hamburger (I think too optimistically) thinks the SCOTUS opinion in Michigan v EPA and also King V Burwell are signs that the SCOTUS will diminish Chevron as controlling on agency activities and rule making. I sure hope Hamburger’s right but… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Why are judges natural born intellectual tyrants? [Junk Science post]

‘The Closing of the Judicial Mind’

2 book reviews By: David F. Forte

Posted: August 11, 2009 Claremont Review of Books
This article appeared in: Vol. IX, Number 3 – Summer 2009

The link is at:
http://www.claremont.org/article/the-closing-of-the-judicial-mind/#.VSE6l1VdX7Y

A review of:

Unrestrained: Judicial Excess and the Mind of the American Lawyer, by Robert F. Nagel
and
How Judges Think, by Richard A. Posner

Reviews follow here>>>>>>
http://junkscience.com/2015/04/05/why-are-judges-natural-born-intellectual-tyrants/

Andy
Guest
Andy

”Why are judges natural born intellectual tyrants?”

This is what I find interesting about the recent SCOTUS ruling on marriage. 9 judges with a majority of 5 to 4 changed the definition of marriage in the USA and overruled the democratic rights of all 51 states to determine the outcome in their own jurisdiction.

Whatever you think of the merits of the case, it hardly seems a victory for “liberty”. It seems that US judges can interpret the constitution and makes up laws on a whim.

On a separate note, RC’s comments about the “obelisks” in the Catholic Church reminds me of Ian Wishart’s book Totalitaria. I am in danger of entering tin foil hat territory here, as this book has references to devil worship in the UN, and “obelisks”.

Presumably, one can assume that having read the book I don’t necessary subscribe to the views, although I thought his book AirCon is fairly on the money, so who knows?

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”RC’s comments about the “obelisks” in the Catholic Church reminds me of Ian Wishart’s book Totalitaria. I am in danger of entering tin foil hat territory here” No danger I don’t think because there’s been no satisfactory resolution. Plenty of discussion, photos, background research on this over the years by many people from all walks including secular i.e. it’s not just from a religious perspective. Ian Wishart is proof of that. The response to accusations of irrational thoughts of totalitarian conspiracy in respect to obelisks is: Simply explain – Why erect obelisks in these 3 (4) locations in particular? Why obelisks? Why go out of the way to obtain them from antiquity or great lengths to construct one? Why give prominence and even protect that by ordinance in one case? Why the symbolism? What is it all about? What does the symbolism actually mean to the people who erected the obelisks? What did they want to achieve? To date, no simple explanations forthcoming hence the speculation and theories naturally. In Washington DC the explanation (sort of) is a memorial column: Washington Monument “The Washington Monument is an obelisk on the National Mall in… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

>”It seems that US judges can interpret the constitution and makes up laws on a whim.”

Yes, this is what Forte goes into (puts it better than I could:

“After World War II, the judiciary’s moralistic pretensions were enhanced by a widespread increase in the use of the injunctive power, allowing courts to become an administrative regulator of American life. Courts today write opinions in code and indulge myths that their decisions have brought about inestimable goods, such as an end to segregation. (Nagel points out it was the Congress—and the states, one might add—that legislated the end of segregation and state discrimination.) The result has been judicial sovereignty. The Court’s actions, Nagel proclaims, have been a body blow to civic republicanism, eroding the people’s self-respect and self-confidence as political actors.”

Actually – “The result has been [Federal] judicial sovereignty”

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Prominence of the St Peter’s outdoor obelisk in the setting of surrounding structures:

http://www.climatechangedispatch.com/images/pics8/Vatican-City.jpg

Obviously this was intentional from inception.

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