Cold facts about the sun

Mini ice age on the way

Earth is 15 years from a “mini ice age” that will cause bitterly cold winters during which rivers freeze over, scientists have predicted.

Source: Sun cycle’s cold facts say mini ice age on way – Environment – NZ Herald News

They said fluid movements within the sun, thought to create 11-year cycles in the weather, will converge in such a way that temperatures will fall dramatically in the 2030s, resulting in solar activity falling by 60 per cent as two waves of fluid “effectively cancel each other out”, according to Professor Valentina Zharkova.

Shovelling snow from the driveway would certainly distract our thoughts from global warming.

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Andy

There was a letter in The Press on Monday requesting that the paper stop publishing letters from “deniers”.

How did this article slip through the cracks then?

Richard C (NZ)

Impressive they managed to find dual dynamos. One was known but this development is a major discovery. >”cold winters during which rivers freeze over” Given river traffic is disrupted by freezing now in parts of the NH this is probably not a major concern. More radical is the growing latitudes move south in the NH and the window shortens. So the major issue becomes food production and stock losses (not to mention energy demand, airport closures, road and rail disruption etc). Here we are in optimum sun and climatic conditions but cold events are wiping out stock. Peru – Heaviest snowfall in years kills 171,850 alpacas http://iceagenow.info/2015/07/peru-heaviest-snowfall-in-years-kills-171850-alpacas/ Bolivia – At least 75,000 head of cattle may starve [heavy snow, 1.5m deep] http://iceagenow.info/2015/07/bolivia-at-least-75000-head-of-cattle-may-starve/ More of that in the ‘South America’ and ‘Asia’ (China, Mongolia) threads. I don’t think the populace realize what the implications of an event such as this predicted would be. Might be (very) good for Australian wheat growers but NZ is now totally dependent on wheat imports from Australia. With the NH clamouring for grain the prices will hike and there will be no special treatment for us. In the NH… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

>”7 degrees inside when I looked, not much more than the chillers and coolrooms”

Back in June:

‘It’s warmer in the chiller than outside’

Spare a thought for those living in the township of Omarama in the Mackenzie Country. “It’s like a freezer,” they’re saying after a bone-chilling minus 21 degrees was recorded. That’s New Zealand’s coldest in 20 years and not far off the country’s record low of -25 set in Ranfurly in 1903.

“Minus 20 is something I’ve never experienced. I walked into the chiller, found out it was actually warmer in the chiller than it was outside. So that was a unique experience that’s for sure,” says Terry Walsh of the Omarama garage.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/-it-s-warmer-in-the-chiller-than-outside-another-night-of-record-lows-for-south-island-6345292.html

Home for the Scrase’s soon, I’m sure they’ll be cozy there. They can always put a chiller out back to warm up in.

Andy

Ha ha very funny RC. We did check our new abode today which has stalled in construction due to ice and other cold weather impediments. We took a walk to the golf course behind the section where a small lake is completely frozen over and resisted attempted to fracture the ice even with large rocks being thrown at it.

This is the front line of “climate change”….

Richard C (NZ)

Cold facts about the pope: ‘The Pope and the Hammer and Sickle’ – By Dennis Prager The pope’s acceptance of Morales’ gift — along with his attacks on capitalism during his Latin American tour — further confirms one of the most troubling moral developments of our time: The Roman Catholic Church is currently led by a man whose social, political and economic views have been shaped by Leftism more than by any other religious or moral system. It also reconfirms what is probably the single most important development one needs to understand in order to make sense of the contemporary world: The most dynamic religion of the past hundred years has been Leftism — not Christianity or Islam or any other traditional religion. Indeed, regarding traditional religions, Leftism has influenced them — particularly Christianity and Judaism — far more than they have influenced the Left. Mainstream Protestant Christianity, much of Catholicism (especially in Latin America, where Pope Francis lived his whole life before becoming pope), and most of non-Orthodox Judaism have become essentially liberal/Left movements with religious (and in the case of Judaism, ethnic) identities. In terms of evil committed, what is the… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

Washington Post have had a fit over reporting of Zharkova et al:

‘News about an imminent ‘mini ice age’ is trending — but it’s not true’

By Sarah Kaplan

“Besides, that “Little Ice Age” that occurred during the Maunder minimum, it wasn’t so much a global ice age as a cold spell in Europe,”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/14/news-about-an-imminent-mini-ice-age-is-trending-but-its-not-true/

A “cold spell in Europe”? Well yes it could be described that way I suppose but I suspect the inhabitants at the time, those starving and dying in particular, may have put it differently.

>”but it’s not true”

This I imagine, is given added emphasis by the petulant stamping of Sarah Kaplan’s foot.

Andy

If the Little Ice Age was a “cold spell in Europe”, why is there a sign at Franz Josef Glacier showing where the glacier extended to during the little ice age?

Andy

A response from the Science Media Centre and some “experts”
http://www.sciencemediacentre.co.nz/2015/07/14/claims-of-a-mini-ice-age-ahead-expert-reaction/

Richard C (NZ)

>A response from the Science Media Centre and some “experts” Good for chuckles. Could go into detailed dissection but probably not necessary because straight off I see Mullen and Renwick’s consummate baloney: [Mullen] – “Dr Zharkova [study author] indicated that solar irradiance may drop by 3 Watts per square meter during the 2030s” [Mullen] – “[I] would point out that the downward infrared radiation into the troposphere is increasing every year due to growing greenhouse gas concentration, and this would (at least) partially compensate a shortwave radiation decline, and would entirely negate a more modest decline than the one reported.” Mullen obviously doesn’t understand that the IPCC’s climate criteria is radiative forcing “measured at top of atmosphere” (TOA). A solar TSI decline of 3 W.m-2 is a direct effective SW TOA forcing. The current TOA imbalance is only a trendless 0.6 W.m-2 (Stephens et al 2012, Loeb et al 2012, IPCC AR5 Chapter 2). But solar SW is accumulating at the surface in the oceanic heat sink. The surface imbalance (Sfc) is also 0.6 W.m-2 therefore there is no effective LW forcing between Sfc and TOA. Theoretical LW CO2 “forcing” is now 1.5+… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

‘Flawed NASA study: Pacific Ocean Warming Related to Volcanic Heat Flow’ Written by James Edward Kamis, 14 July 2015. Here we explain that the root cause of the 2000-2015 western Pacific Ocean warming is increased heat flow from deep ocean volcanoes, hydrothermal vents, and heat emitting fault zones…not man-made atmospheric global warming. Data supporting this contention are diverse, reliable, and abundant. A summary of key points substantiating a geological heat flow origin to warming in the western Pacific Ocean: 1) NASA’s man-made global warming deep ocean “hiding” place lies directly above one of the most active sub-ocean geological heat flow regions on earth, the Solomon Island / New Guinea portion of the western Pacific. A visually dramatic example of this geological heat flow is shown in the photo atop this article (Figure 1). It shows the ocean surface expression of the heat plume from a sub-ocean volcano named Kavachi which is located in the Solomon Island Chain. Even more telling are recently updated deep ocean maps which have identified many hundreds of deep sub-ocean volcanoes, hydrothermal vents and fault zones in this limited geographical area. None of these geological features are monitored for… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

[Mullen] – “Dr Zharkova [study author] indicated that solar irradiance may drop by 3 Watts per square meter during the 2030s” I find it amusing that Mullen has had to acknowledge this possibility, and I find the responses somewhat lacking credibility. Lets put some perspective on what is being talked about here. Solar was held constant from early 2000s out to 2100 in the CMIP5/AR5 modeling specification. Solar was not thought to be a climate factor worth considering even though it was obvious by 2009 that the sun was going into a funk (not a technical term). 3 W.m-2 is actually only a mid-range scenario when MM/LIA to CWP estimates are used as a basis for future possibilities. The IPCC cite Jones, Lockwood, and Stott (2012) for their contra-solar case in Chapter 9. This was a projection using a CO2-forced model that was already wrong in 2010. They used least-case solar scenarios, dismissing Shapiro et al’s 6 W.m-2 estimate which is the most extreme case scenario. I have Mike Lockwood on email record saying he “didn’t understand their methodology”. Jones, Lockwood, and Stott (2012) is this paper: ‘What influence will future solar activity… Read more »

Andy

There was a panelist on Jim Mora’s Radio NZ afternoon show yesterday who was “confused” about the latest solar minimum news as he thought we were in a global warming phase.

Expect more confusion to ensue

Richard C (NZ)

[Renwick] – “The big difference now is that there is a lot more greenhouse gas in the atmosphere than there was in the 1700s (about 40% more CO2 and more than twice the methane) which has added up to more than 2 Watts per square metre increase in the energy absorbed at the ground, compared to the 1700s.”

Renwick must think downwelling longwave infrared radiation (LW down) is a surface heating agent – it’s not. Here are the updated earth’s energy budget diagrams from Stephens et al (2012):

http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v5/n10/images_article/ngeo1580-f1.jpgcomment image

“Energy absorbed at the ground” is only 0.6 W.m-2 which has already been demonstrated to be SW (24 approx tropical ocean). And LW up (398) – LW down (345.6) = LW up (52.4) i.e. LW is a cooling agent at the surface.

James Renwick is either clueless or deliberately disseminating a lie. I can’t work out which.

Maggy Wassilieff

You seem to have neglected Prof Sean Oughton’s final comment on the Science Media site…

“We also need to wait for the research to go through the peer-review process and get published. The National Astronomy Meeting is an important meeting, and presumably this solar activity work is all fine. To judge it properly though, people will want to see the journal article, not just a talk at a conference.

The paper was published in the leading Astrophysics journal last year

Shepard, Zharkov & Zharkova 2014 The Astrophysics journal 795:

There’s a discussion of the paper up on JoNova.

One can only wonder what Prof Oughton was thinking by agreeing to comment on the Zharkova talk , without checking some background about the author and her research publications.

Richard C (NZ)

[Mullen] – “[I] would point out that the downward infrared radiation into the troposphere is increasing….” Mullen implies the LW forcing is into the troposphere, he’s right in theory to a degree (Renwick says it’s into the surface, he’s definitely wrong in every respect). I would however challenge Mullen to support his assertion with real-world observations. Problematic given earth’s energy flows are measured and stated in terms of TOA, not TOT. But what Mullen is pointing out is actually irrelevant in terms of critical climate forcing at TOA (see below). First though, lets look at Mullen’s “expertise”: Dr Brett Mullan Principal Scientist – Climate Qualifications: B.Sc. (Hons, 1st class),University of Auckland, 1972. Sc.D., Massachusetts Inst. Technology, 1979. Expertise Keywords: climate dynamics climate change scenarios climate variability validation of climate models seasonal forecasting El Nino southern oscillation droughts circulation indices NZ temperature record Pacific convergence zones https://www.niwa.co.nz/people/brett-mullan OK, ignoring the questionable “NZ temperature record” and “validation of climate models” items for our purposes, he is first and foremost a NIWA-pronounced “climate dynamics” and “climate change scenarios” expert. His statement above indicates that he has not addressed theory vs observations which calls his proclaimed expertise… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

>”he thought we [are/]were in a global warming phase.” He’s probably not as confused as he thinks he is except this is/was phase peak. It was great, I hope everyone enjoyed it, I did. The confusion should clear in a few years. Now we’re heading into a cooling phase, that realization will set in soon enough. I don’t think I will enjoy it as much as warming since I’ll be in my twilight years (if I’m lucky), but upside is that lower UV might not give as many people skin cancer as it is now: ‘How Low Can It Go? Sun Plunges into the Quietest Solar Minimum in a Century’ 04.01.09 “Sunspots are planet-sized islands of magnetism on the surface of the sun, and they are sources of solar flares, coronal mass ejections, and intense UV radiation.” “Careful measurements by several NASA spacecraft have also shown that the sun’s brightness has dimmed by 0.02 percent at visible wavelengths and a whopping 6 percent at extreme UV wavelengths since the solar minimum of 1996.” http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/solar_minimum09.html ‘Harmful Effects of Ultraviolet Radiation’ http://enhs.umn.edu/current/5103/uv/harmful.html Skin Cancer Skin cancers are the most commonly occurring cancers in terms of… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

‘IPCC UNDERESTIMATES THE SUN’S ROLE IN CLIMATE CHANGE’ Bas van Geel and Peter A. Ziegler (2013) ABSTRACT For the understanding of current and future climate change it is a basic pre requisite to properly understand the mechanisms, which controlled climate change after the Last Ice Age. According to the IPCC 5th assessment report (in prep.) the Sun has not been a major driver of climate change during the post-Little Ice Age slow warming, and particularly not during the last 40 years. This statement requires critical review as the IPCC neglects strong paleo-climatologic evidence for the high sensitivity of the climate system to changes in solar activity. This high climate sensitivity is not alone due to variations in total solar irradiance-related direct solar forcing, but also due to additional, so-called indirect solar forcings. These include solar-related chemical-based UV irradiance-related variations in stratospheric temperatures and galactic cosmic ray-related changes in cloud cover and surface temperatures, as well as ocean oscillations, such as the Pacific Decadal Oscillation and the North Atlantic Oscillation that significant affect the climate. As it is still difficult to quantify the relative contribution of combined direct and indirect solar forcing and of… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

[van Geel and Zeigler] – “Measurements show that during on average 11-year solar cycles variations in UV radiation are with 2-6% considerably larger than those of TSI (about 0.1%). Therefore, similar and probably even larger discrepancies between TSI and UV radiation than the observed variations may have occurred during longer time frames [39,51,52,57].” OK, that possibility is what the IPCC discount to nothing (along with a myriad of other solar papers). [39,51,52,57] are these: 39. Shapiro, A.I., Schmutz, W., Rozanov, E., Schoell, M., Shapiro, V. and Nyeki, S., A new approach to long-term reconstuction of the solar irradiance leads to larger historical solar forcing. Astronomy and Astrophysics, 2010, 529, A67. 52. Krivova, N. A., Vieira, L. E. A. and Solanki, S. K., Reconstruction of solar spectral irradiance since the Maunder minimum, Journal of Geophysical Research, 2010, 115, A12112, doi:10.1029/2010JA015431. 53. de Jager, C., Duhau, S. and van Geel, B., Quantifying and specifying the solar influence on terrestrial surface temperature, Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics, 2010, 72, 926-937. 57. Haig, J.D., Winning, A.R, Toumi, R. and Harder, J.W., An influence of solar spectral variations on radiative forcing of climate. Nature, 2010, 167, 696-699.… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

>”But they [Mullen and Renwick are] apparently clueless as to how to apply it [solar change] to the earth’s energy flows and budget (either that or they’re just toeing the party line).”

>”James Renwick is either clueless or deliberately disseminating a lie. I can’t work out which.”

Some indication in the case of Renwick:

‘11% cut … follow us down the path to catastrophe’

Wednesday 8 Jul 15 11:30am

New Zealand will face droughts, floods, fires, social upheaval and catastrophic global economic damage if the world follows the country’s lead on cutting greenhouse gas emissions, says one of our leading climate experts.

Dr James Renwick – Professor of Physical Geography at Victoria University, an International Panel on Climate Change lead author, and formerly the chief scientist at the National Institute on Water and Atmosphere – says that cutting emissions at the rate that New Zealand proposes would lead to at least 3deg of warming by the end of the century.

http://www.carbonnews.co.nz/story.asp?storyID=8839 [subscriber access]

Full text at Hot Topic
http://hot-topic.co.nz/renwick-on-nzs-11-cut-follow-us-down-the-path-to-catastrophe/

Obvious where this “leading climate expert” is coming from. Scientific misconceptions get relegated to the back seat – out in the carpark.

Alexander K

When I were a lad, I used to enjoy listening to the men I worked with on farms during weekends and school holidays: I saw that they seemed much more connected to the world of science and reality than the slightly-odd adults who, as one poet put it, ‘couldn’t get a job in the Post Office’ that we were forced to suffer at school. Most of the men I worked with, post-WWII, had been overseas in various theatres of conflict and had learnt hard lessons about how the world works and the lengths politicians will go to in order to sell the population dodgy deals, which is why I have always been suspicious of the various churches and the UNIPCC. When politicians want to sell me stuff, I really need to know the underlying facts.
Like Richard C, as the world cools ever so gradually, I will look back on the warmer years with some fondness as my ageing bones don’t actually like the cool or tolerate it as well as warmth.

Richard C (NZ)

>”the lengths politicians will go to in order to sell the population dodgy deals, which is why I have always been suspicious of the various churches and the UNIPCC.” Fortunately, in the case of the papal encyclical at least, plenty of people are seeing it for what it is – and putting it bluntly: An Apostate Pope? Written by Merv Bendle, Quadrant Online on 15 July 2015. Pope Francis is playing with fire. It seems that the converging crises engulfing the Catholic Church and the need to cultivate a supportive global constituency based on the Third World may have pushed the Pope to both ignore the free-market basis of functioning economic systems and desert the fundamental principles of Christianity. Caught in a perfect storm of scandal and relevance, Francis appears prepared to capitulate to the neo-Marxist paganism that underlies the Deep Green ideology of the global environmental movement and assume a vanguard role in constructing a global welfare state, established to mitigate the alleged effects of climate change. This capitulation has two dimensions: economic and theological, as will be discussed below. [,,,] This is a heady ideological concoction: eco-apocalypticism, global revolution, neo-Marxism, anti-Westernism,… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

Bendle on the Vatican’s totalitarian ideology derived from Marxism-Leninism, anti-capitalist and Deep Green ideologue Naomi Klein, and Deep Green Nazi National Socialism. *************************************************************************************** It is hard to credit that Francis, or any person of intelligence and a presumed advanced awareness of the human capacity for wickedness, could imagine that a trillion dollar global fund could or should be created by pillaging the Western middle classes and then funnelling that swag to the masses in Botswana, Bolivia, Swaziland, South Africa, the Philippines and innumerable other supplicant nations without seeing corruption, incompetence, and maladministration on an utterly unprecedented scale. In fact, economically the encyclical is merely a re-hash of the familiar Marxist-Leninist diatribes against Western imperialism that have been the lingua franca of the international Left for 150 years. Consequently, in its hysterical utopianism it invokes the same totalitarian ideology that provided a rationale for the catastrophic forms of centralized state economic planning that crippled the economies, devastated the environment, and systematically enslaved and killed scores of millions of people in the Soviet Union, Communist China, Cambodia, and other communist states. Operating under the thrall of Marxism-Leninism, an earlier generation of economically illiterate ideologues attempted… Read more »

Alexander K

Excellent research, Richard C!
The Catholic church really is in big trouble in cold-bloodedly divorcing itself from accepted mainstream Christian theology and aligning itself with the Marxist Greens, as Pope Francis’s encyclical makes clear.
While I decided I didn’t need an imaginary friend to lean on many years ago, I recognise the comfort blanket that the faith is for many of my friends who could not accept my reasoning.
This current nonsense makes for an object lesson on how deeply Martin Luther must have been angered/dismayed by the church’s selling of ‘penitence’ and illustrates the power of the Green’s religosity which certainly is anything but science.

Andy

It’s not just the Catholics. The Anglicans are also jumping on the eco-bandwagon.
I also have a friend whose daughter goes to a Quaker school.

They have ditched some of their principles in favour of “sustainability” and other fashionable stuff.

I’m not sure how sustainable giving Iran the green light to develop nukes is, but that’s another story in the weird and wonderful world of “progressive” politics

Richard C (NZ)

>”Excellent research”

I didn’t know there was such a thing as a PhD in Comparative religion but whatever it is, Bendle provides much context to the forces at work in this world.

Let’s face it, these are not trivial forces:

“Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun” – Mao Zedong, August 1927

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_power_grows_out_of_the_barrel_of_a_gun

Richard C (NZ)

>”Let’s face it, these are not trivial forces” From the Wiki link above following Mao’s ““Political power” quote repeated 6 November 1938: “Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party. Yet, having guns, we can create Party organizations, as witness the powerful Party organizations which the Eighth Route Army has created in northern China. We can also create cadres, create schools, create culture, create mass movements. Everything in Yenan has been created by having guns. All things grow out of the barrel of a gun. According to the Marxist theory of the state, the army is the chief component of state power. Whoever wants to seize and retain state power must have a strong army. Some people ridicule us as advocates of the “omnipotence of war”. Yes, we are advocates of the omnipotence of revolutionary war; that is good, not bad, it is Marxist. The guns of the Russian Communist Party created socialism. We shall create a democratic republic. Experience in the class struggle in the era of imperialism teaches us that it is only by the power of the gun… Read more »

Mike Jowsey

Maggy Wassilieff: Well spotted, and good call.

Alexander: I detect you may have been consuming The Hitch, perhaps as much as I. “While I decided I didn’t need an imaginary friend to lean on many years ago, I recognise the comfort blanket that the faith is for many of my friends who could not accept my reasoning.”

Andy

Most people have an imaginary friend or two. “Manbearpig” is one such example.

Richard C (NZ)

CLIMATE CHANGE: WHEN TWO TRIBES GO TO WAR By Ian Wishart […] As a former believer in global warming in my days as a senior producer in radio and TV in the eighties and nineties, I had transitioned to a climate sceptic in the 2000s, so I re-examined my own journey. I had ‘believed’ in the early stages because the scientific theory appeared to be plausible. Sure, I was a member of the liberal media and a paid-up member of Greenpeace for more than a decade – I’d been attracted to the group because I’d been one of the first journalists on the scene of the 1985 Rainbow Warrior bombing, and because of their stance on driftnet fishing and whales. I donated reasonably heavily to the cause. However, I was also an investigative journalist who’d been trained to ‘test the evidence’. That’s what eventually forced my transition. As a senior editor and former political spinmeister, I recognised a PR campaign when I saw it and increasingly the evidence for human-caused global warming was become scantier whilst the PR hype grew louder – which I knew was standard practice when the evidence is weak.… Read more »

Andy

Ian Wishart is absolutely correct in the above. It is completely pointless debating science with the True Believers. Most of them don’t have the foggiest about what the science says anyway, including some that hold academic positions in the subject

Richard C (NZ)

>”It is completely pointless debating science with the True Believers” Much time can be saved by getting a handle on a person’s place in the spectrum in the first instance I’ve found. Not worth the effort of any scientific presentation when a mind is locked shut. But not all are. But at the UN it’s never been about the science. Wishart: “This being can only channel His energies through the mass consciousness or through a group conscious entity, such as the U.N.”, wrote Alice Bailey, whose disciples included UN Secretary-Generals Dag Hammarskjold, U Thant and Assistant Secretary General Robert Mueller. That era is now past (I hope) but it was one of the things that focused my attention on the UN long before climate change. I found that era quite disturbing (still do). There’s a new regime in place now that is much more overtly social reorganization than esoteric based (maybe, don’t really know). Much info on Alice Bailey available but in terms of the UN, this is what the Wishart quote was about (i.e. know your enemy): Lucis Trust – The Spiritual Foundation Of The United Nations The Lucis Trust The Lucis… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

[Wishart] – “I should have realised then that I was dealing with a group that actually didn’t care about the evidence.” Or any other reasoning. Case in point: EPA Chief Admits Obama Regs Have No Measurable Climate Impact: ‘One one-hundredth of a degree?’ EPA Chief McCarthy defends regs as ‘enormously beneficial’ – Symbolic impact By: Marc Morano – Climate Depot July 15, 2015 U.S. House Science Committee July 9, 2015 Via: The HARRY READ ME File: Testifying before Congress, EPA’s McCarthy defends the Agency’s climate regs as ‘enormously beneficial’ when asked about the rules climate benefit of reducing global temps by just one one-hundredth of a single degree Celsius. CHAIRMAN LAMAR SMITH: “On the Clean Power Plan, former Obama Administration Assistant Secretary Charles McConnell said at best it will reduce global temperature by only one one-hundredth of a degree Celsius. At the same time it’s going to increase the cost of electricity. That’s going to hurt the lowest income Americans the most. How do you justify such an expensive, burdensome, onerous rule that’s really not going to do much good and isn’t this all pain and no gain. ADMINISTRATOR GINA MCCARTHY: “No sir,… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

I had a maths teacher at High School who would start each class by writing up a quote from someone who’s words he considered spiritually enlightening and worthwhile dwelling on – therefore we in maths class should too. UN Secretary-General Dag Hammarskjold was one of those.

Didn’t seem to improve my maths unfortunately. Years later I found out he had given up on them all in favour of Christianity.

Andy

It’s a shame your maths teacher couldn’t focus on inspiring mathematicians, or which there are many, rather than New Age UN cronies

Good maths teachers that inspire kids are very rare. I’m lucky to have had two of those, one of whom wrote the textbooks we used

Richard C (NZ)

The UN wants $100bn a year for the Green Climate Fund (a “very, very small sum” – Figueres) but the UK DECC has already overspent its budget by £1.5bn to support renewable energy projects over the next five years:

Britain Faces Multi-Billion Black Hole In Renewables Subsidies
http://www.climatechangedispatch.com/britain-faces-multi-billion-black-hole-in-renewables-subsidies.html

What’s the problem?. Meanwhile the EU and ECB seem to be finding Greece’s €86bn eurozone bailout a bit time consuming:

‘Greece debt crisis: Eurozone backs €7bn bridging loan’

What happens next?

# EU member states to back eurozone decision on €7bn bridge loan to clear Greece’s immediate debts (expected Friday)
# German parliament to back negotiations on €86bn eurozone bailout deal (Friday)
# Greek parliament to pass further reforms (22 July)
# Lengthy eurozone talks to start on bailout through European Stability Mechanism

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33546352

Riots ensuing. I don’t know why they don’t just get Christiana Figueres on the job.

[“That era is now past (I hope) but it was one of the things that focused my attention on the UN long before climate change. I found that era quite disturbing (still do). There’s a new regime in place now that is much more overtly social reorganization than esoteric based (maybe, don’t really know).”] FROM TOTALITARIA: Surely, you mutter, this is just mumbo-jumbo, a bunch of airy-fairy types wearing tinfoil hats jumping around in a circle underneath the debating chamber whilst flinging feathers and gold dust into the air and chanting something suitably exotically Eastern; file it under “mostly harmless”. Again, you are missing the point. It’s not the “efficacy” of the Luciferian prayer rituals that is at issue, it is the fact that the Lucifer disciples long ago captured the hearts and minds of UN policy bureaucrats, thus ensuring that their belief system is entrenched in UN policies worldwide. You are probably also seriously underestimating just how widespread this belief system now is. … When Global Governance comes in the next decade as they are planning, it will come with this baggage. In 2007 the Canada Free Press published an opinion piece,… Read more »

Andy

Ian Wishart – I have read both Totalitaria and AirCon.

Both excellent reads, thanks!

Richard C (NZ)

[Klein from upthread] – “When 400,000 people marched for climate justice in New York last September, the slogan was ‘To change everything, we need everyone’.”

As I recall, given the photo documentation of the wall of placards, a typical observation might have been – “Gee, there sure are a lot of communists here”.

Richard C (NZ)

[Bendle on Klein from upthread] – “In effect, climate change was to become the Trojan Horse through which the policies of deregulation, free trade, privatization, fiscal austerity, tax reductions, plus individual responsibility and a reduced public sector could be subverted and reversed.”

Have already linked to Subversion upthread. I’m convinced this is the keyword on so many levels in respect to how climate change is being used by all the fellow travelers.

Mike Jowsey

The claws of socialism. The common good. Big Brother is watching you. George Orwell turns in his grave. All on the sixpence of CO2. Somebody write a book, please!

Richard C (NZ)

>”UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon’s very first act, after being elected to the top position [2007], was to visit the Lucifer chapel:” Not sure whether to thank you or not for this Ian. A bit unsettling because if I had seen this before (can’t remember if I have or not) it hasn’t stuck in my mind. I was aware of Kofi Annan’s proclivity but I don’t think Ban Ki-moon’s visit that one time tells us much, probably why the thought hasn’t stuck if it occurred. I do agree with “You are probably also seriously underestimating just how widespread this belief system now is” but it’s hard to know how much Ban Ki-moon adheres/subscribes to the basis of it. I suspect his action is more ceremonial than anything. although ceremony is telling (Wiki “A ceremony is an event of ritual significance, performed on a special occasion”). So about those UN ceremonies: Statement Secretary-General’s [Ban Ki-moon’s] remarks to introduce His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI to the General Assembly of the United Nations New York, 18 April 2008 Your Holiness, Excellencies, I am deeply grateful to His Holiness for accepting my invitation to visit the United… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

>”To my mind it is the background of Ban Ki-moon’s “special advisers” that is more pertinent in Ban’s case”

Maybe the same can be said of Pope Francis – think Schellnhuber, Edenhofer, and Klein.

Richard C (NZ)

Some names from Columbia University stand out more than others: ‘The Story Unfolds 2: Obama, Biden, Brzezinski, Carter…and the Trilateral Commission?’ ~~By American Lassie, October 27, 2008 Let’s go to Obama’s years at Columbia University. Why is there such a secret about his transcript and the courses he took? Who were his instructors? Wonder of Wonders. At the same time of Obama’s attendance at Columbia, ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI was also at the Columbia as head of the “Institute of Communist Affairs.” (More on ZB later.) Obama’s senior thesis reportedly was entitled “Soviet Nuclear Disarmament.” His dissertation has disappeared from Columbia’s archives and the Obama campaign professes to have no copies of it. His degree, received in 1983, was in political science. Back to Brzezinski — Brzezinski was national security adviser under Jimmy Carter. He left Columbia to found the TRILATERAL COMMISSION along with David Rockefeller. The Trilateral Commission is a private organization with members from the U.S., Europe and Japan. (The Japanese presence has grown to include other nations in Asia.) In his book “Between Two Ages”, Brzezinski writes: “Marxism is simultaneously a victory of the external, active man over the inner, passive man… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

Trade And Climate Change – Tim Groser Friday, 17 July 2015, 9:17 am Speech: New Zealand Government Ireland And New Zealand Agriculture: Trade And Climate Change Climate Change: The Setting for Paris “It is in the context of the last of these human needs – food security – that I want to focus on the role of agriculture in climate change.” Agriculture – Its Role in Developing Countries “Eventually, something has to give here. The ‘Science’ in climate change – or rather, the key point about the influence of anthropogenic greenhouse gases on climate change – may indeed by ‘settled’ in broad scientific terms. But the politics of climate change around this – including the metrics and methodologies – are not.” Agriculture Emissions: The Kyoto Model “The Kyoto modality – taking five other Greenhouse Gases and converting them to carbon dioxide equivalents in what economists would call ‘a fungibility model’ – is elegant, sophisticated and logical for industrial economies trying to get their energy and industrial processes on a lower emissions pathway. It does not make a lot of sense to an economy with relatively large agriculture emissions. At one level, there is… Read more »

Andy

Colombia University also has links to the far left group “Weather Underground” who bombed various places in the USA during the 1970s.

Kathy Boudin was one that was convicted for her part in the Brinks robbery which resulted in the deaths of two policemen and a security guard.
They were also involved in a bombing of the Pentagon

Boudin is now an adjunct professor at Colombia University
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Boudin

During the first election campaign, US conservatives tried to make a link between the Weather Underground’s Bill Ayers and Obama, which the latter denies and has denounced the group’s actions.

Andy

Speaking of crime, (and not related to the Sun, sorry), the Greenpeace activists who caused $30,000 of damage at Kingsnorth power station in the UK have been cleared of any crime as they were acting on behalf of “climate change”
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/sep/11/activists.kingsnorthclimatecamp

This presumably opens the door to activists damaging cars and other personal property on the same basis

Richard C (NZ)

>”Colombia University also has links to the far left group “Weather Underground” who bombed various places in the USA during the 1970s.” Formation 1969 Type Marxism–Leninism, Communism, Anti-imperialism, New Left The origins of the Weathermen can be traced to the collapse and fragmentation of the Students for a Democratic Society following a split between office holders of SDS, or “National Office”, and their supporters and the Progressive Labor Party (PLP). During the factional struggle National Office leaders such as Bernardine Dohrn and Mike Klonsky began announcing their emerging perspectives, and Klonsky published a document titled “Toward a Revolutionary Youth Movement” (RYM).[4] RYM promoted the philosophy that young workers possessed the potential to be a revolutionary force to overthrow capitalism, if not by themselves then by transmitting radical ideas to the working class. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground Bernardine Dohrn married Bill Ayers. These people must be aging now but the movement (“Type” above) never went away, there’s just a new generation with the same aims but different approach. Goes back to my argument upthread. WU used guns and failed. The modern incarnation uses subversion and is having far greater success (in their terms). Climate change has been… Read more »

Andy

Interestingly, Spiked Online is an online magazine that was formed from a paper called “Living Marxism”, and its editor Brendan O’Neill was a member of the RCP – The Revolutionary Communist Party.

He describes the RCP as very much one of open discussion and free thinkers, which maybe explains their evolution into libertarianism and strong proponents of free speech and opposition to excessive state involvement in people’s lives.

Richard C (NZ)

Ban Ki-moon’s homage to the UN’s religious sanctum doesn’t necessarily make him an earth worshipper anymore than Luciferian either, even given it’s obvious earth connection. His upbringing was Buddhist but he refuses to discuss his religion. His action though speaks louder than words. He made a declaration “Hey everyone, look, this is where my allegiance is”. He’s bought into the UN religion whatever it’s roots. The roots to him may be essentially humanitarian, that does seem to come across.

But by buying in he’s bought into whatever other roots there are that he may not have even thought of. That makes him malleable, which comes across too.

Richard C (NZ)

Andy, did you see Tim Groser’s speech from Scoop upthread at 10:47 am?

“If we set up a binary choice between climate change and food security, there is no possibility of developing countries prioritizing climate change, whatever the predictions of IPCC computer models may say.”

“The ‘Science’ in climate change – or rather, the key point about the influence of anthropogenic greenhouse gases on climate change – may indeed by ‘settled’ in broad scientific terms. But the politics of climate change around this – including the metrics and methodologies – are not.”

This wasn’t off-the-cuff, this is what policy wonks and ag research have been working on for some time.

Richard C (NZ)

>”RCP ……..opposition to excessive state involvement in people’s lives”

It does get a bit confusing at times (for me anyway). Zbigniew Brzezinski upthread had a strategy for the destruction of Russia:

‘The outrageous strategy to destroy Russia’, by Arthur Lepic
http://www.voltairenet.org/article30038.html

I find that difficult to reconcile with his other aspects.

Richard C (NZ)

Been getting it’s and its wrong lately – sloppy.

Mike Jowsey

“Been getting it’s and its wrong lately – sloppy.”
Nobody’s perfect RC. Andy got peoples’ lives wrong, but hey, the dialogue is what counts. (Maybe RT would have another pov, but I am simply enjoying the research and sharing of information here – albeit disturbing).

Mike Jowsey

Germaine to the evolving topic herein:
Where Pope Francis Got His Advice on Global Warming
“On behalf of legitimate scientists everywhere, I apologize for the bad advice Pope Francis has received about global warming and CO2.”
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/07/17/where-pope-francis-got-his-advice-on-global-warming/

About that Buddhism thing. Buddhism was rewritten from the ground up in the 1870s, and transformed from near extinction into the must-have artifact in every “contemporary” Western home and TV show. From Totalitaria: The Lucifer doctrine derives from Theosophy, whose two major writers were Helena Blavatsky and Alice Bailey. Contrary to popular belief, most modern Buddhism in the West, particularly the Zen strain, is not authentic Buddhism but a hybrid largely influenced by Theosophy.299 In other words, modern Buddhism is the occult in drag, made palatable by its seeming exoticness. 299 “The Making of Buddhist Modernism” by David L. McMahan, Oxford University Press, 2008, see also “The Divinity Code” by Ian Wishart, Howling At The Moon Publishing, 2007. In 1995, scholar Robert Sharf wrote, quite pointedly: “The popular ‘lay image of Zen, notably the notion that Zen refers not to a specific school of Buddhism but rather to a mystical or spiritual gnosis that transcends sectarian boundaries, is largely a twentieth-century construct. Beginning with the persecution of Buddhism in the early Meiji (haibutsu kishaku) Zen apologists have been forced to respond to secular and empiricist critiques of religion in general, and to Japanese… Read more »

More from Totalitaria: Then there’s the strange case of Lumbini, in mountainous Nepal. Virtually every UN Secretary-General in history has made a pilgrimage to Lumbini, a remote archaeological site 10 hours’ drive from the Nepalese capital, Kathmandu, in the foothills of the Himalayas. Most readers will be unaware that Lumbini is the reputed birthplace of Buddha.310 Dag Hammarskjöld visited Lumbini in March 1959, and paid homage in a haiku verse: “Like glittering sunbeams/The flute notes reach the gods/In the birth grotto.”311 U Thant made the UN leader’s pilgrimage in 1967 and called it “one 310 Most scholars believe it was a different site, but the UN has honed in on Lumbini. The site is sacred to the Theravada strain of Buddhism which is directly linked to the Lucis Trust, as you will discover later in this book. 311 “United Nations Secretaries-General and Lumbini”, UNESCO document, http://www.unesco.org/new/index.php?id=66087 THOUGHT CONTROL & THE NEW RELIGION | 229 of the most important days in my life”, when he wrote his memoir in 1977, View From The UN. Kurt Waldheim’s312 tour in 1981 resulted in an announcement that the UN would spend donations on a “Lumbini Master Plan”… Read more »

Mike Jowsey

Ian W – I find all religions equally delusional. I.e. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact.

Mike, the debate about the merits of any or all religions is not the point of the above posts…rather it is to illustrate that the people controlling the climate change/global governance agenda have the particular beliefs above, and much more that I haven’t disclosed. The response from my atheist friends has been, “they’re all moonbats, who cares?” which overlooks the elephant in the room: these people already have some control over your life, if they swing enough public behind them they will end up with total control of your life at the macro level.

Laugh at them now, at your peril…

Mike Jowsey

Ian, quite so. Thank you for the admonishment. However, I watch helpless as the unelected power-brokers feather the nest of their empire. What can a humble cherry farmer do in a backwater country except marvel at their delusions?

Mike Jowsey

By the way, the humble cherries are farmed. The farmer is not as humble, especially after a glass of Merlot Cabernet. 😉

TOTALITARIA: Speaking in 2000, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan again acknowledged that spiritualism drove the United Nations from its core: “For many of us, the axiom could well be. ‘We pray, therefore, we are’.” Then, borrowing a quote from Martin Luther King, Annan added, “This says to us that our world is geographically one. Now, we are faced with making it spiritually one. Through our scientific genius we have made of the world a neighborhood; now through moral and spiritual genius, we must make it a brotherhood.” Why is it the job of the United Nations to make all humanity “spiritually one”? … If you want to know just how deep all this goes, consider this: The Lucis Trust has published a ‘prayer’ purportedly given to Alice Bailey in 1945 at the same time as the UN was being established, by the 2000 year old spirit creature Djwhal Khul. It is called “the Great Invocation” and it is a prayer ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL, AND IN THE DARKNESS BIND THEM | 233 to the entity Lucifer/Satan/Maitreya/Whatever to return to Earth as ruler. At one point a few years back, the Lucis Trust… Read more »

If they find out about your cherries Mike, you’ll be forced to sacrifice them, probably in a ceremony involving duck feathers, bat fur and pixie dust

“…you will visit the Meditation Room. My great predecessor, Dag Hammarskjöld, who created that room, put it well. He said of the stone that forms its centerpiece [and I quote]: ‘We may see it as an altar, empty not because there is no God, not because it is an altar to an unknown God, but because it is dedicated to the God whom man worships under many names and in many forms’.” Even the US Catholic News was fooled by it, reporting how the Meditation Room was an icon for the world.327 The Pope, said the paper, wrote in the visitors’ Golden Book at the Meditation Room. The symbolism of the head of the Catholic church appearing before the Lucis Trust’s Lucifer-dedicated altar in the UN must have had the adepts chuckling. Even so, maybe Benedict suspected something. He had been scheduled to remain there for five minutes but, “emerged about a minute later walking briskly to the delegates entrance.”328 Maybe a minute inside Lucifer’s temple was enough to tell the Pope where he was, enough to send a chill up his spine. Not only did he leave the Meditation Room rapidly, he… Read more »

Mike Jowsey

Much more likely to tax the living joy out of them and me. But then the bartering begins, the cyber currencies, the upwelling of revolution against the nightmare of utopian dictatorship. We live in interesting times. And thanks Ian for shining some light on the motivations of this rabid elite.

Richard C (NZ)

>”albeit disturbing” Don’t let it disturb you Mike, you’ve got a good thing going producing cherries, honey, horses and stuff. But worth keeping an eye on all the contestants wanting control of the world (as they do). Include Deep Green, International Communism, ISIS, Federal USA or EU, Roman Catholicism, UN org, various combinations of same, and so on. Doesn’t mean we have to give in to anyone or let them diminish our enjoyment of good things. >”bad advice Pope Francis has received” He’s the head of one of the contestants, a powerful leader but no guns nowadays (Roman Pope used to have military power before Napoleon put a stop to that). This one’s different though because there’s a prophecy attached, a premise – the biblical book of Revelation. No different than the scientific investigation of man-made climate change (or any scientific process): premise – theory – observation. Here’s the biblical premise (entire chapter for context at link): Revelation 13 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13&version=KJV Here’s… Read more »

As a further illustration of just how much impact the Satanists have had on UN organisations, a senior World Bank official named Richard Barrett addressed the Lucis Trust’s World Goodwill conference in 1996. Barrett revealed he had been invited to establish a “spiritual unfoldment335 society” at the World Bank, based on New Age and Alice Bailey doctrine. Very quickly, the meetings were attracting 40 to 50 World Bank HQ staff at a time, and “within a few months” the Luciferian offshoot was so “perfectly respectable” within the Bank that “we began to announce our meetings on the internal email system.”336 Barrett then hatched the idea of the World Bank hosting “an international conference on spiritual values and sustainable development”. That conference, staged at the World Bank on 2-3 October 1995, attracted more than 400 delegates from around the world. As the professional journal Environmental Conservation reported in its March 1996 issue, the gathering attracted “diplomats…eminent environment and political scholars, ethicists and theologians…NGOs” and a range of other hangers-on. All of them being subtly indoctrinated with Lucis Trust teachings.337 No less a personage than the head of the World Bank, James Wolfen 335 An… Read more »

Pope Benedict wasn’t the first Pope to have contact with the occult team running the United Nations, however. We’ve already seen Pope John XXIII named as a co-founder of the New Age Temple of Understanding at the UN. Whether that was because John was spiritually naïve, or because it was deliberate, we may never know. What we do know is the occultist UN Secretary-General U Thant may have put the Pope up to it. It was Thant who also persuaded John’s successor, Pope Paul VI, to become the first Pontiff to address the United Nations General Assembly in October 1965. “One of Mr Thant’s personal triumphs was the visit of Pope Paul VI to UN Headquarters in 1965,” reported newspapers.330 “It was Mr Thant’s idea…he often injected religious notes in his remarks. He maintained a warm friendship with both Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul, visiting them occasionally and exchanging messages with them. “He believed that all ideologies should be able to coexist peacefully and that they would eventually be synthesised.” [emphasis added] Pope Paul VI is also listed as a “founding friend” with U Thant and Pope John XXIII of the New… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

>”Include Deep Green, International Communism, ISIS, Federal USA or EU, Roman Catholicism, UN org, various combinations of same, and so on.”

Forgot Luciferian/Satanism but Ian’s covered that. Christian theologians would say the previous list is redundant with this addition.

Richard…let your fingers do the walking and find the world heritage site number of Lumbini….

Andy

Mike writes:


Nobody’s perfect RC. Andy got peoples’ lives wrong, but hey, the dialogue is what counts.

I’d be interested to hear more about what you think I got wrong, Mike; I have a thick skin 🙂

On the subject of religion, I am not a religious person but I don’t accept that 3000 years of Judeo-Christianity has no value, that we have replaced with a belief in…..nothing..

Furthermore, there are men far more intelligent than me, e.g Freeman Dyson, who basically invented Quantum Field Theory with Richard Feynman, that are observant Christians, so I try to keep an open and humbled mind on this topic.

Live well and do good, not a bad motto for life?

Richard C (NZ)

>”Richard…let your fingers do the walking and find the world heritage site number of Lumbini….”

Ref: 666rev
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/666

Heh.

Mike Jowsey

Andy. apostrophes confound. It’s of no relevance.

3000 years of religious dictatorships replaced with a belief in… nothing more than reason, the freedom of enquiry, thought, expression. Spare me your sentimentality for blind faith.

As for those eminently more eminent such as Freeman Dyson, I might disagree with their archaic, contrary, hypocritical and wishful beliefs but I would defend with my life their right to believe them. Just don’t teach it to my grandchildren as preordained fact. Religion, much less than having no value, poisons the enquiring mind. In fact, poisons everything, as Christopher Hitchens would propound.

By the way, your Freeman Dyson reference reminds me of a marvelous physicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, worthy of your time I would submit.

Andy

Mike, I don’t have any time for “archaic” belief. I also am interested in the Dark Ages that formed between the periods of Greek ancient civilisations and the Enlightenment that saw the explosion of scientific and mathematical thought that occurred in the 17th-20th Centuries. Many would argue that these latter periods were times when religious straightjackets were removed that allowed these free thinkers to flourish, a viewpoint that I largely concur with

However, I don’t see this process continuing. We seem to be entering a new Dark Ages surrounded by New Age mysticism, leftism, political correctness and and cultural relativism that seems to think that Islamic cultures that stone rape victims to death and execute gays has as much worth as our own.

Mike Jowsey

Andy, your first paragraph holds no disagreement with me. Nor does your second, but It rather rests my case vis-a-vis religion. “…cultural relativism that seems to think that Islamic cultures that stone rape victims to death and execute gays has as much worth as our own.” Whilst I agree that this particular religion holds bronze age norms at its core, fundamental Christianity could also be so accused. I am vague these days on specific scriptural reference, but I think it is Deuteronomy that bestows duty to burn the witch.

Here’s an hypothesis if you care to engage in this forum. “Religion poisons everything”. Falsify that if you dare.

Andy

Whist we are at it, De Grasse Tyson is a well-know “science communicator” who has trivialised the global warming issue for the consumption of the public, with little academic background of worth

Freeman Dyson, on the other hand, is a person who has not only produced original and profound work in Quantum Mechanics, but who has also asks serious questions about the AGW theory and the role of the carbon cycle.

Needless to say, Freeman Dyson is characterised by DeSmogBlog as a “denier” (despite stating that human caused climate change is a trivially true fact)

But then Dyson is a Christian, so we need to marginalise him and demand him to bake a Gay Cake or a Gay Pizza

Mike Jowsey

Non-sequitur my friend. Neil deGrasse Tyson’s views on CAGW are not a factor in this debate.

Okay, you want profound quantum mechanics, try Lawrence Krauss, also an atheist. Probably an adeist.

Mike Jowsey

A recent presentation by Krauss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cIbfbl8124

Andy

Since I am a religious agnostic, Mike, this is probably a pointless debate,

I merely acknowledge that people can have different viewpoints on various issues that are beyond rational comprehension, and as long as any party doesn’t feel the need to force their views on any others then I am happy

Live long and prosper, my friend…

Mike Jowsey

Aahhhh. Okay, I’ll bow out for now in deference (only). Thank you for your blessing in friendship. My response is “Live for you, your loved ones and humanity. Without one of these your life is empty”.

Richard C (NZ)

>“He [U Thant] believed that all ideologies …………would eventually be synthesised.” By subversion, coercion, and if necessary, force would not be out of the question if it could possibly be employed. Well on the way I think. ISIS isn’t complying at this stage though. They’re doing a bit of their own synthesising by force. >”Why is it the job of the United Nations to make all humanity “spiritually one”?” It isn’t but it’s preconditioning for the arrival of their “Coming One”. >’Who is “the Coming One”? The clue is the “light”. He’s Lucifer, the morning star, the son of dawn, the serpent – as Blavatsky wrote. He is why a six and a half tonne block of iron ore is bathed in light from an unseen source above, immediately beneath the UN debating chamber, an altar, as the UN Secretary-General called it “to the God of all”.” 5 ft high, 2 ft wide. More an obelisk than an alter to my mind. Those similar around the world, Vatican (x2), Washington, City of London, New York Central Park, were the topic of a previous off-topic rant in another thread starting here: https://www.climateconversation.org.nz/2015/06/epas-mccarthy-every-voice-needs-to-be-in-this-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-1346142 I’ve disqualified… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

>”I’ve disqualified Francis as a player in Rev 13 because the 666 criteria isn’t met”

Well, the count criteria is met but Francis himself doesn’t fit. Ralph Myers:

“Yes, it appears that all that remains for this prophecy is the removal of Benedict XVI as an antipope and then Francis’ name completes the count to 666. It is what I have predicted, according to this interpretation.”

But,

“It is he who is the final Antichrist [Satanic/Satan/Lucifer] that will have the whole world following after him. Francis is a human being. He is not Satan.”

http://www.666beast.net/Update.htm

Richard C (NZ)

>”Here’s an hypothesis if you care to engage in this forum. “Religion poisons everything”. Falsify that if you dare.” If the hypothesis is couched “Religion [of man] poisons everything” then I think you’re on to something Mike. If you take the example of the Christian religion and the visions of John the Revelator, there is nothing poisonous in the presence of God. Everything is pure, pure gold, pure crystal, pure everything. This in either the realm of God or in the New Jerusalem of the prophesied millennium (1000 years peace on earth). Everything impure or poisonous of any form is excluded. In the New Jerusalem there are trees for healing, the antithesis of poison. I don’t think they are cherry trees but they might be. Point is, God is pure not poisonous. Man not so much. The Roman Catholic church (religion of man) in particular has poisoned the Christian religion. They did their best to poison the science of the Enlightenment (even the pope’s encyclical poisons man-made climate change theory – it’s dead wrong in Para 23), they poisoned bible translation from the original manuscripts (over 24,000 of those), they poisoned sacred days… Read more »

Andy

In my mothers village in the UK, the local church does good work in the community and is a hub for the elderly.

I don’t see much poison there.
I’m not sure that the RichRd Dawkins cultists are not a religion either.

Richard C (NZ)

>”In my mothers village in the UK, the local church does good work in the community and is a hub for the elderly. I don’t see much poison there.”

Yes I think we have to be careful to distinguish between the good and the poison within any denomination or religion. The poison is invariably in the leadership (the manipulators). In Revelation 18:4 there’s a passage “Come out of her, my people” which many interpret as telling good people in the RC church, specifically, to get out. This even though the RC church runs (one of?) the largest charities in the world.

Richard C (NZ)

‘Collapse of the AGW theory of the IPCC; ‘Most influential climate paper of all time’ contains multiple false assumptions’ Introduction Kyoji Kimoto, a Japanese chemist, scientist, and fuel-cell computer modeler & inventor, has submitted his latest work as a guest post to The Hockey Schtick, and which refutes multiple false physical assumptions which underlie the alleged “first physically sound climate model” described in “the most influential climate change paper of all time.” These same erroneous physical assumptions also continue to serve as the fundamental basis of James Hansen’s NASA/GISS climate model, many other models including the ‘state-of-the-art’ IPCC climate models, and form the basis of the wide range of modeled CO2 climate sensitivity estimates. In Kimoto’s new work below (and in his prior published paper also below), he addresses the multiple unphysical assumptions made by Manabe & Wetherald, Hansen/GISS, and IPCC modelers et al, a few of which include: 1. An artificially fixed tropospheric lapse rate of 6.5K/km, which does not adjust to perturbations in the atmosphere. This false assumption artificially limits negative lapse rate feedback convection. Using physically correct assumptions, Kimoto finds the climate sensitivity to doubled CO2 to be a negligible… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

>”they poisoned sacred days”

They moved the Jewish Sabbath from Saturday to the RC Sunday.

One of the requirements of the euro zone Greece bailout is to introduce Sunday trading.

One of the undercurrents of the man-made climate change “spirituality” (think pope’s encyclical) is that everyone is moving too fast, we have no time to rest. Sunday should be a day of rest (and they will make it so).

This is in direct conflict with the euro zone’s Greece bailout conditions.

Richard C (NZ)

>”they poisoned sacred days”

Easter is another one. That’s a pagan celebration, the days (starting Friday) don’t fit the biblical account of the crucifixion. Nothing to indicate Christmas was in the middle of NH winter either. The RC church instituted pagan days into the Christian calendar.

Andy

I find it curious how the mere mention of Christianity can put people into fits of rage, yet they tiptoe around Islam in case they might offend someone.

Presumably, we might actually regret this when the world is predominantly Islam, as Mark Steyn proposes in his book “America Alone”

Richard C (NZ)

>”they poisoned……..”

With priests. The second covenant did away with the need for priests but the RC church instituted them nevertheless. Confession to priests is poison, but this is/was how the church knows/knew everyone’s secrets.

Even in the old covenant (as still Orthodox Jewery today) priests could only come from the tribe of Levi. If your priest isn’t Levite he’s no priest.

>”they poisoned bible translation from the original manuscripts”

Matthew 23:9 KJV
[Jesus] – “And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”

OK, now look for that in the RC Douay-Rheims version:

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=call+no+man+father&version=DRA&resultspp=25

Doesn’t occur, been expunged. Hence the RC predilection for calling all their illegitimate priests “Father” and their chief priest the pope, not Jesus or Father God note, “Holy Father”. This is man usurping God in this denomination.

Richard C (NZ)

>”we might actually regret this when the world is predominantly Islam”

In Europe the demands of Islam are described as “the tail wagging the dog”.

There’s no place in the Islamic Caliphate for the Infidel (which is everyone else – us). We’ve been over this before. It’s an evil empire. From Climate Depot:

GOP Prez. Candidate Carly Fiorina Vs. Katie Couric on Climate Change

Carly Fiorina: ‘I think it’s ridiculous for the Obama Administration to call ISIS a “strategic distraction,” and then go on to climate change is the single most pressing National Security issue of our time.’

Read more: http://www.climatedepot.com/#ixzz3gIrcFqxB

Carly Fiorina OWNS Katie Couric on Climate Change
http://louderwithcrowder.com/carly-fiorina-pwns-katie-couric-on-climate-change/

Mike Jowsey

OMG! Harbingers of Paris 2015 fail?

Pope Francis’ approval ratings slump sharply in US, led by conservative dismay

Among conservatives the dropoff has been especially sharp: just 45 percent view Francis favorably today as opposed to 72 percent a year ago.

“This decline may be attributable to the pope’s denouncing of ‘the idolatry of money’ and attributing climate change partially to human activity, along with his passionate focus on income inequality — all issues that are at odds with many conservatives’ beliefs,” Gallup analyst Art Swift wrote Wednesday (July 22) when the survey was published.

But liberal fervor for the Argentine pope, who was elected to great acclaim in March 2013, has also cooled, dropping an average of 14 points.

https://richarddawkins.net/2015/07/pope-francis-approval-ratings-slump-sharply-in-us-led-by-conservative-dismay/

Mike Jowsey

Andy: “In my mothers village in the UK, the local church does good work in the community and is a hub for the elderly. I don’t see much poison there.”

Is the motivation religion or is it simply the empathy and honest concern for a struggling individual. The Good Samaritan was not ascribed to any religion in the fable Jesus was purported to have told. So in your anecdote religion per se is not at point. Can you name any act of kindness or welfare performed in the name of a religion that could not be performed by a non-believer?

As to “I’m not sure that the Richard Dawkins cultists are not a religion either”, this borders on ad-hom rhetoric. You will see what you want to see, but if you want to discuss specifics of argument, happy to engage.

Andy

Is the motivation religion or is it simply the empathy and honest concern for a struggling individual.

The latter is kind of what Christianity is about, so both is true. Anyway, the Church is a focal point where people meet up, have a singsong and a cup of tea afterwards.

As to “I’m not sure that the Richard Dawkins cultists are not a religion either”, this borders on ad-hom rhetoric.

Not sure how this is ad-hom. An atheist friend of mine went to a Richard Dawkins lecture and he described is as being like a revival meeting.

I’m of the view that we can accommodate different views in our society as long as people don’t feel the need to force their views on others, or to do harm to others. When LBGT activists start to harass Christians and use the government as a stick to punish them for not baking a cake, I don’t see forces of good at work.

I see the same forces that gave us Fascism and Communism that led to the deaths of 100 million people during the 20th Century.

Mike Jowsey

“Not sure how this is ad-hom.” Use of the word cultists.

Andy

Use of the word cultists.

I have no problem with Richard Dawkins who is an eminent scientist. I have no problem with people that read his books.

However, he has a following which does sometimes resemble a religious cult, much like the global warming cultists.

The Spectator on the Richard Dawkins Cult:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9286682/the-bizarre-and-costly-cult-of-richard-dawkins/

Andy

For those with a bit of humour, this page on Dawkins is good for a laugh
http://en.illogicopedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins_(cult_leader)

Mike Jowsey

Playing the man rather than the ball. As I wrote upthread Andy, “You will see what you want to see, but if you want to discuss specifics of argument, happy to engage.” Cheers.

Andy

Playing the man rather than the ball I’m not really sure what you mean here Mike. I have no beef with you or Richard Dawkins. Please let’s not be enemies where no malice is intended. To give you a little perspective, John, the vicar who buried my father in the local Devon churchyard, is an all round good guy. He is about 70, he wore Bart Simpson socks when he came to discuss funeral arrangements with myself and my Mum. He rides a red 700cc Honda motorbike, and works his butt off caring for and looking after the elderly and vulnerable people in the district. I went to one of his services at church with my Mum. When he entered the congregation starting singing the introductory hymn, rather poorly. He stopped the organist and turned to the congregation, and said “that is rubbish, you lot sound like you just got out of bed”. Which was met with much laughter, and a much better encore. I’m not a religious person and neither is my Mum much, but she gets comfort from this community and I really don’t see anything sinister in it. Since my… Read more »

Mike Jowsey

Andy, ‘I find this “soft Anglican” church thing pretty unthreatening, really, to put things in perspective” Yes, my Mum likes her church too. My beef is not with local churches, in fact I think they provide good social intercourse, discussion, music, and compassion in the main. But as RC said “The poison is invariably in the leadership”. What I object to regards religion (religious leadership if you like) is pushing their beliefs on me (for example in our national anthem), pushing them on my children as part of a school curriculum, putting a stop to stemcell research, decrying the use of condoms in aids-torn Africa, proclaiming from the pulpit that CAGW is real and we have a Godly duty to fix it, et cetera et cetera. Then there are the wars, the persecution of Jews by RCs, God’s command to the Israelites to commit genocide on the Malachites, et cetera et cetera et cetera. Religion in that sense poisons everything. When I asked earlier if you could name any act of kindness or welfare performed in the name of a religion that could not be performed by a non-believer, I could have gone… Read more »

Andy

Mlke, thanks for your response.
I was a born-again raving happy clappy for a couple of decades

which puts it into perspective thanks

No problem, at the end of the day, I am a rational person, like you, that has science and logic as our tools.

I hope this puts the matter at rest. I am not your enemy. I hope we can catch up for a beer sometime

Mike Jowsey

” I hope we can catch up for a beer sometime”. Darn tootin! And may I say, overdue. I’ll let you know when I’m coming to the Big Smoke and maybe we can intersect at your local.

Mike Jowsey

Correction to a muddled memory – not Malachites, Amalekites,

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
1 Sam 15:3

Andy

I’ll let you know when I’m coming to the Big Smoke and maybe we can intersect at your local.

Sure sounds good, do you contact details? RT can provide with my permission

Richard C (NZ)

It wasn’t just the Amalekites Mike, it was ALL the Canaanites inhabiting the promised land: Numbers 33:55 Canaanites to Be Destroyed …54’You shall inherit the land by lot according to your families; to the larger you shall give more inheritance, and to the smaller you shall give less inheritance. Wherever the lot falls to anyone, that shall be his. You shall inherit according to the tribes of your fathers. 55But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you, then it shall come about that those whom you let remain of them will become as pricks in your eyes and as thorns in your sides, and they will trouble you in the land in which you live. 56’And as I plan to do to them, so I will do to you.'” http://biblehub.com/numbers/33-55.htm Canaan was the area of modern Israel roughly. The OT Israelites failed to “drive out the inhabitants of the land” totally and paid the price. And since modern Israel was formed the Palestinians continue to “trouble [them] in the land in which [they] live. The origin of the name “Palestine”: In 14 BC, Israel became a… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)

That timeline last comment was woolly and wrong sorry.

Delete this “In 14 BC, Israel became a nation.” That is wrong, it was more ending than beginning but wrong anyway.

>”In 61 BC, Israel was conquered by the Roman Empire.”

Should be referring to Hasmonean conquest by the Romans in 61 – 63 BC and the end of the Hasmonean dynasty in 37 BC. From Wiki:

“Josephus’ account is the only primary source covering the history of the Hasmonean dynasty during the period of its expansion and independence between 110 to 63 BC”

“The installation of Herod the Great (an Idumean) as king in 37 BC made Israel a Roman client state and marked the end of the Hasmonean dynasty. In AD 6, Rome joined Judea proper, Samaria and Idumea (biblical Edom) into the Roman province of Iudaea”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasmonean_dynasty

I think I might be confusing accounts of the 63 BC Jerusalem siege with the 70 AD destruction too. There were several siege’s of Jerusalem so I would have to look up Josephus’ ‘Wars of the Jews’ to get it right. Not important to what I was getting at though.

Richard C (NZ)

Siege of Jerusalem (63 BC) After three months, Pompey’s troops finally managed to overthrow one of the Baris’ towers and were able to enter the Temple precinct, both from the citadel and from the west. First over the wall was Faustus Cornelius Sulla, son of the former dictator and a senior officer in Pompey’s army. He was followed by two centurions, Furius and Fabius, each leading a cohort, and the Romans soon overcame the defending Jews. 12,000 were slaughtered, while only a few Romans troops were killed.[5][12] Pompey himself entered the Temple’s Holy of Holies which only the High Priest was allowed to enter, thereby desecrating it. He did not remove anything, neither its treasures nor any funds, and the next day ordered the Temple cleansed and its rituals resumed.[13][14][15][16] Pompey then headed back to Rome, taking Aristobulus with him for his triumphal procession.[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_%2863_BC%29 Siege of Jerusalem (AD 70) Josephus had acted as a mediator for the Romans and, when negotiations failed, witnessed the siege and aftermath. He wrote: “Now as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be the objects… Read more »

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