Open threads as promised

UPDATE 1

Sat 16 Oct 2010 10:20

I’ve returned to the familiar CCG style for now. Since the new style wasn’t giving us everything we wanted, there was no point in leaving it there. As I look around the Internet I see little that I like; finding a good blog theme is not proving easy. If anyone wants to give links to excellent themes, I’d be grateful. – Richard T

Open threads have been put up today, as requested by several very active members of our Conversation. They’re accessible from the menu bar (look for Open threads) and the sidebar on the right. I guess I should start to move relevant comments from the “Housekeeping” post to the new topics.

The record number of comments previously was 68 recorded on “Observations on NIWA’s Statement of Defence” but now the record is up to 138 143 161 recorded on “World of sceptical questions unfolds…“. Rodney take note: see what you started? (thanks again)

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Richard C (NZ)Mike Jowseycoheniteco2isnotevilQuentin F Recent comment authors
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Richard C
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Richard C

May I request some more Open threads please:

Misc Climate Related Articles
Global Cooling
AGW – Busted
Carbon CO2
Climate Driver Hypotheses
Climate Blogs
Climate Models
Climate Scientists
Climate Science Papers
Climate Information Resources
Climate Change Propaganda
United Nations General
United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC)
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
IPCC FAR
IPCC SAR
IPCC TAR
IPCC AR4
IPCC AR5
NIPCC
Climate Scene – New Zealand
Climate Scene – Australia
Climate Scene – USA
Climate Scene – UK
Climate Scene – Europe
Climate Scene – Asia
Climate Economic Impacts
Climategate
Land Temperature Records UHI
Satellite Systems
Solar – Cosmic
Ocean Heat Content
Atmospheric Thermodynamics Heat
Hydrological Cycle Evaporation Water Vapour
Organisations
Greens Environmentalists Totalitarians

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Climate Models
Climate Propaganda
Metacommenting

Superseded by

Climate Models and Clouds in Models
Climate Change Propaganda
Metacommenting MetaHousekeeping and MetaTips

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

More Threads Please

Albedo Earthshine Reflectivity and Clouds
Argo Project
Metecommenting

Please change Climate Models to :

Climate Madels and Clouds in Models

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Oops

ARGO Project

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Oops again (Its too early for this)

Metacommenting

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Hot Topic ?

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

“Hot Topic” would obviously be picked up in Climate Blogs initially but may become a “special” category

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Climate Controversies News MMCC Scepticism and the Main Stream Media

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Climate Politics and Political Positions

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Combine

Ocean Heat Content ARGO Project

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Change

“AGW – Busted”

to

AGW – Busted AGW Theory and Counter Theory

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Or better

AGW Busted – Theory and Counter Theory

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

NZCSET v NIWA

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Troublesome Trolls (I’m serious)

val majkus
Guest
val majkus

I wouldn’t suggest this because in my experience some people search for their acronym on the net so you could encourage trolls; my personal experience on other blogs is ‘don’t encourage the trolls’; because in a limited life span you don’t have time to waste

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Good point

I was thinking of strategies in view of experiences at JoNova, Climate Dispatch, Hot Topic.

I am quite happy to engage with the opposition because I have learned a great deal by doing so strangely. It also means that a good riposte must be backed by evidence, argument, paper references etc so you’ve got to know your stuff and forces you to do homework and keep up with critical developments.

But the thread name could do with some work.

DEBATING?.

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Change

“Greens Environmentalists Totalitarians”

to

Ideology: Green Guardian Totalitarian and Leftism

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Energy: Green Renewable Wind Solar PV Coal Thermal Hydro Nuclear Prices Economics

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Change

“Energy: Renewable Wind Solar PV Coal Thermal Hydro Nuclear Prices Economics”

to

Energy: Wind Solar PV Coal Thermal Hydro Nuclear Prices Economics Failures and Controversies

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Climate Science
Climate Change Law and Consequences

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Oops again

Climate Models and Clouds in Models

Plus a thread

Climate Phenomena Natural Cycles and Weather

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

“Climate Phenomena Natural Cycles and Weather”

Would be better

Climate Change Natural Cycles Phenomena and Weather

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Change

“Climate Change Natural Cycles Phenomena and Weather”

to

Climate Change Natural Cycles Phenomena NH v SH and Weather

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

New List (V 2.0)

NZCSET v NIWA
Misc Climate Related News and Articles
Global Cooling
AGW Busted: Theory and Counter Theory
Carbon CO2
Climate Driver Hypotheses
Climate Blogs
Climate Models and Clouds in Models
Climate Science: Science Papers Scientists and Information Resources
Climate Change: Natural Cycles Phenomena NH v SH and Weather
Climate Change Propaganda
Climate Change Law: ETS Carbon Taxes International Impositions and Consequences
(Respectfully request “ETS and Carbon Taxes” be superseded)
United Nations General
United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC)
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
IPCC FAR
IPCC SAR
IPCC TAR
IPCC AR4
IPCC AR5
NIPCC
Climate Scene – New Zealand
(Respectfully request “New Zealand Issues” be superseded for consistency)
Climate Scene – Australia
Climate Scene – USA
Climate Scene – UK
Climate Scene – Europe
Climate Scene – Asia
Climate: Economic Impacts
Climate: Politics and Political Positions
Climate: Controversies News MMCC Scepticism Climategate and the Main Stream Media
Energy: Wind Solar PV Coal Thermal Hydro Nuclear Prices Economics Failures and Controversies
Land Temperature Records UHI
Satellite Systems
Solar – Cosmic
Albedo Earthshine Reflectivity and Clouds
Ocean Heat Content and ARGO Project
Atmospheric Thermodynamics and Heat
Hydrological Cycle: Evaporation and Water Vapour
Organisations: Societies Universities Companies Greenpeace WWF ET AL
Ideology: Green Guardian Totalitarian and Leftism
Troublesome Trolls
Metacommenting MetaHousekeeping and MetaTips

Richard Treadgold
Guest

Oh, this is good, you’ve collated all the suggestions into a single list. Thanks, it saves me doing it! I’ll let it sit a while and decide the ones we need now. At the moment we’re not discussing most of these topics, so they’re not needed immediately. In addition, where overlap exists, we apply tags or categories to the post, so avoiding the need for a separate thread.

You’ve had some fun refining the categories, Richard C! As ex-librarian at the NZ Herald I’m familiar with the process of cataloguing and I like it, too. It will be interesting to see how our views of the essential categories match up. Thanks for your work, it helps a lot.

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Don’t know about others, I would MUCH rather spend my time in Open thread discussion than post discussion.

There’s some situations developing in the international arena of AGW Proponent – AGW/MMCC Sceptic combatantcy.

The Open thread forums would be a HUGE resource.in this respect.

Richard Treadgold
Guest

I see. I’ll add more categories soon (each one is easy, but not an instantaneous task); in the meantime, feel free to start filling the existing threads.

Richard Treadgold
Guest

Richard C:

What is meant by MMCC? I guess you don’t mean “Mobile Mini Circus for Children”!

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Ha!

In case you were expecting a reply – Man Made Climate Change

Richard Treadgold
Guest

Ha ha. Now I see the joke. No, I really didn’t get MMCC. Momentary blind spot.

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

“You’ve had some fun refining the categories, Richard C! As ex-librarian at the NZ Herald I’m familiar with the process of cataloguing:

Being an Ex Corporate Researcher and Intel Administrator helps

As does experience in Energy Sector and Alternative Energy Research and Analysis with the attendant information mgt requirements.

Used News Clipping Service BTW

First job of the day – crunch NZ Herald!

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

“I’ve returned to the familiar CCG style for now”

Use-ability of “familiar” from a comment perspective – Ugh! (BLOCKS2 light years ahead IMO)

Readability of “familiar – better than BLOCKS2

Narrow format of “familiar – Yuk! (IMO)

Post clarity of “familiar” – better than BLOCKS2

Utility of discussion – not a patch on BLOCKS2 (Take a look at “World of sceptical questions unfolds…”

https://www.climateconversation.org.nz/2010/10/world-of-sceptical-questions-unfolds%E2%80%A6/

i.e. “familiar” would be a pain in the a**** [En] in Open thread discussion IMO

Richard Treadgold
Guest

I agree with each point you make, and even the enthusiasm with which you make them.

But I’m not prepared to do any more work on customising Blocks2, knowing we’re not going to keep it. Attractiveness is the top of the list because it can draw in those who know little of AGW. Blocks2 would tend to do the opposite and drive those without a taste for the subject away.

I tend to think that the drawbacks of Freshy2 (the familiar) don’t stop us talking. Freshy2 would be suitable to keep, but behind-the-scenes access to the style sheets is quite difficult. There are themes which make customisation much easier.

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Yes, understand.

I’m sure the experiment has provided pointers for the way ahead.

Metablogging?

val majkus
Guest
val majkus

and talking of trolls here’s the ultimate putdown by Anna V on WUWT in the category of Prof Lewis’ resignation Your argument doesn’t make sense. It is a lame hypothesis for the purpose of rationalizing your position. No, if my exposition does not make sense your response is entrenched denial of any other possibility of looking at the world except as a Chicken Little. I described an analogy to what happened to me, a retired 70 year old particle physicist. Until three years ago I was going with the tide on AGW precisely because I trusted on the integrity of scientists in other disciplines assuming they were working as rigorously within the scientific method. I have over forty years experience with modeling theory in computer programs and comparing with data. In my case, as I am naive on world politics and mass movements, I started smelling fish when reading somewhere that there was no medieval warm period. I said “what the $%^”. My encyclopedic knowledge included not only the vikings cultivating Greenland but also that in the byzantine period there was a year where they gathered two crops, it was so temperate. At… Read more »

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

That is an excellent example – there’s some very good ones also at Jo Nova’s Hal Lewis post

Val please see my response to your Troublesome Trolls comment.

A better Thread would be Debating or Debating Strategies in the Climate Change Arena – perhaps.

val majkus
Guest
val majkus

Well; Richard how about RE
I think some debate about fossil fuel v other sources of energy might add to the debate and at least add some argument to the ‘precautionary princlple aspect’
so the category would be ‘Renewable Energy’

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Val , you can’t see this at the moment because I’ve got a lot of stuff in moderation but what I am doing is calling myself THREAD and setting up thread headers in the Open categories with the category title in bold.

So I was actually suggesting a specific thread titled DEBATING.

And yes, in the Energy and Fuel category there will be appropriate thread headers.

You could call yourself THREAD or HEADER and do the same thing. Just putting comments in ad hoc wont get us anywhere in the specified discussion categories (OK here).

Andy
Guest
Andy

I have a lot of opinions on Wind Energy, with info to back it up.
I think that is a great idea

val majkus
Guest
val majkus

and Australia has two very good experts and possibly three

val majkus
Guest
val majkus

One other thing; my preference is that people put their full names rather than some acronym; my view is that if you have an opinion then you should stand by it; I know that on the internet it currently seems to be all acronyms but in my view this detracts from the credibility of statements or replies; why are people so frightened to use their right name; I use my full name on all blogs but others rarely do; just a comment; what do others think?

Richard
Guest
Richard

Yes, Problem for me is that there are loftier Richard C’s e.g Richard S. Courtney and I don’t feel I’ve graduated to the level of stepping ou in my full name but will do in time. For the moment it is better for me to have some anonymity (other circumstances too).

I’m Richard C (NZ) internationally.

val majkus
Guest
val majkus

Okay Richard; I accept that but I think I know your surname; but accepting what you say; what do others say; quite often I think that people use acronyms because they think what they say is not important enough; but adding a surname does add credibility; for example Anna V would have added to her credibility if she had put her full name

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Real cred is when you can call your self JN for example and everyone knows who you are.

I particularly like the acronym MMH10. Insignificant name but one of THE most significant papers.

val majkus
Guest
val majkus

Okay; I’ve got no cred but I’ll still use my full name;

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

I’m Richard Cumming at JD’s personal Blog (Not the DT one)

Seems appropriate there.

BTW Please use the “Reply” button, otherwise you’ll get lost in the morass (soup)

val majkus
Guest
val majkus

thank you Richard, I did know your surname; and I congratulate you on your energy in educating simplons (is that a word) like me – I do enjoy this blog – one thing I like about this and other blogs like WUWT and Jo Nova is that people with a far greater scientific knowledge than I have don’t talk down to lay people like me

val majkus
Guest
val majkus

sorry, I think the word is simpletons

Richard C
Guest
Richard C

Remember the Reply button – I do the same thing myself (especially if you are used to JoNova).

Don’t underestimate your knowledge. The scope of potential discussion is so huge, nobody’s going to know everything. My experience has been that I’m saying the same things as recognized experts in some discussions (models etc in my case and Miskolczi – Spencer excluded))

Pick your zone(s) and get expert at that(those), there’s no point in us being all expert at the same thing. We need specialist Gurus, being a layman doesn’t preclude you (Stephen Wilde’s figured a lot of the science – he’s a Solicitor).

Also remember that we in NZ are 2 plus hours ahead of OZ (time for dinner and bed – 10:20pm here)

val majkus
Guest
val majkus

thanks Richard wise words;

Steve Netwriter
Guest

I may have missed them, but:

1. Cosmic rays
2. Magnetic fields (Sun, Earth)
3. Cloud formation (related to #1, #2)

eg

Lecture on Cosmic rays and climate by Physicist Jasper Kirkby of CERN
http://www.neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/2525

Magnetic Fields of the Sun & Earth, Cosmic Rays and how they affect Cloud Formation, and thus Climate
http://www.neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/2526

The Geomagnetic Model of Climate Change
http://www.neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/forum/94

For me the Jasper Kirkby lecture is one of the best single sources of a realistic view.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Steve, please duplicate these respective items in the ‘Open Threads’ drop down menu categories.

e.g. 1, 2, in Solar – ‘Open Threads’ drop down menu

“The Geomagnetic Model of Climate Change” as a Reply to CLIMATE DRIVER HYPOTHESES in the
“Climate science” category, ‘Open Thread’ drop down menu.

Or as your fancy tickles you.

Excellent post BTW

THREAD
Guest
THREAD

It’s in Solar

THREAD
Guest
THREAD

Keywords: in comments (including thread headers) and keyword lists

THREAD
Guest
THREAD

Andy, RT.

Now that all the thread headers are in place in Open Threads and there’s a lot of good quality comments, the search engines have found CCG as evidenced by the Alexa rankings (See Climate: Climate Conversations v Hot Topic, Alexa Traffic Stats).

But what we do not have is specific “Keywords” lists (H/T Andy).

To my mind there are 2 options (plus, the do nothing, and, there’s no rush):-

Option 1.

One MASSIVE keyword list under the Open Threads post page index list. – RT’s domain.

Option 2.

Specific keywords lists sequestered (like it?) among the main categories.

e.g. From:

A NULL HYPOTHESIS FOR CO2, Roy Clark, Ph.D.

Keywords: Carbon Dioxide, Global Warming, Greenhouse Effect, Maunder
Minimum, Meteorological Surface Air Temperature, Milankovitch Cycles, Ocean
Warming, Radiative Forcing, Radiative Transfer, Sunspot Cycle.

So it’s a simple copy n paste and a Reply to Climate Science in this case.

It would be more efficient to compile more extensive lists from several papers and blog posts e. g. Judith Curry’s climate models series.

This would REALLY bring in the search engines and perhaps the eyes also this time.

I prefer Option 2. – we can drive it from our end and it’s hands-off for RT.

Thoughts anyone?

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

My thinking is that it will be best to hold off for a while before “sequestering” keywords lists.

Reason being, that CCG Open Threads is somewhat under the radar at the moment and that is a good thing.

It gives us time to set it up with debunking material everywhere.

For example, I have already put a one liner under “Ocean Acidification” but I will also put Dennis Ambler’s “Acid Seas – Back to Basic” from SPPI up there as well.

That way, when we do sequester the keywords lists and the Trolls follow the search engines they wont know where to start.

Thoughts?

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

In a communication to Joanne Nova, I defined “Open Threads” as:

“a laizze faire, pseudo-Hierarchical DBMS utilizing pseudo-Relational DBMS “pointers”, complete with comments – a bit messy but works fantastically”.

i.e. 2 DBMS methodologies at work simultaneously in a pseudo fashion and now being integrated internationally with other Blogs e.g. JoNova and Errors in IPCC climate science – Warwick Hughes. See CLIMATE BLOGS.

Very powerful.

Thoughts anyone?

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

It turns out that:

“Option 1.

One MASSIVE keyword list under the Open Threads post page index list. – RT’s domain.

Option 2.

Specific keywords lists sequestered (like it?) among the main categories.”

is a BAD idea.

See Jo Nova’s comment in regard to this here:

https://www.climateconversation.org.nz/2010/10/open-threads-as-promised/#comment-27133

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

New Zealand Search Engines

October 27th 2010 Visibility %

……………………….CCG……HT

AGW…………………..37……..2
Sea levels………….29……27
Acidification………..21…..12
Polar regions……..12…….0
ETS………………………7…..16
Atmosphere…………6……..0

Total Visibility……..19…..10

Using Rank Tracker

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

New Zealand Search Engines

October 27th 2010 Visibility %

……………….CCG…..HT

AGW……………..37……2
Sea levels……….29…..27
Acidification…….21…..12
Polar regions…….12……0
ETS………………7…..16
Atmosphere………..6……0

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Joanne Nova’s JoNova posts keywords

http://joannenova.com.au/?page_id=4987&preview=true

Jo Nova
Guest

Richard, thanks for the suggestions, I am very proud of my Index, and the archives page is pretty useful too sometimes (though I suspect mainly for me, as I can remember which month and which headline matches “what” information).

Remember, regarding Alexa that outside links coming in are very important. I’ve compared sites and there is at least one political blog that gets less traffic than me, but “ranks” higher than I do in Australia — partly because it has twice as many incoming links (and partly because my traffic is US based as much as Australian based.).

The only way to get natural links from external sites that count, is, dare I say it, with really useful content. I hear that google is not impressed with “list sites”. remember for a while when those fako list pages kept making to the top of Google searches as people gamed the google search engine?

I didn’t generate the Index page for alexa or google. I darn well need it myself — otherwise I can’t find things. 🙂

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

“I am very proud of my Index, and the archives page is pretty useful too sometimes (though I suspect mainly for me”

And us at CCG now. I’ve set up links to JoNova ARCHIVES and INDEX under “Climate”: Climate Blogs – JoNova

“The only way to get natural links from external sites that count, is, dare I say it, with really useful content. I hear that google is not impressed with “list sites”.”

Yes – good point. “Open Threads” would fall into the category of “list sites” unfortunately.

So it would be better to go with “really useful content” instead of keyword lists sequestered around Open Threads – thanks for the tip Jo.

“can’t find things”

You are not alone there. I have massive bookmark folders (especially climate science), but Open Threads is making it easier to “find things” quickly. The CCG INDEX is a huge advantage.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

C3 has had an epiphany re unlocking information regarding non-consensus global warming science that was hidden away in their Blog after years of posts. Peer-Reviewed Studies: Documenting The Evidence That Disproves The IPCC Global Warming Science [Need a new source for peer-reviewed studies? Go here. Below is an explanation of what this post is about.] About two years ago, ‘C3 Headlines’ was started as an effort to report on interesting reports and science regarding the non-CAGW view of climate change. Although it was not planned, we ended up reading many an article about specific peer-reviewed studies that disagreed with the IPCC global warming science claims, which often resulted in a C3 posting. Over time and some 2,100 posts later, we got interested in how many peer-reviewed articles we actually referenced in our posts. We manually did a count, and to our amazement, we’ve referenced over 500 peer-reviewed studies that take issue with the IPCC science on climate change. Unfortunately, conducting this count turned to be a ludicrously laborious exercise since we did not have the foresight to categorize those ‘C3’ postings as being based on a peer-reviewed study. So, while doing the count,… Read more »

THREAD
Guest
THREAD

RTM discussion

THREAD
Guest
THREAD

Radiative Heat Transfer: Simple Overview

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

I asked these 2 questions at the AER RTWG —————————————————————————————————————————– IPCC Assessment Reports – AER RTWG ? Postby Richard C (NZ) » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:58 pm 2 questions here for someone employed at AER or RTWG (or someone else with the answer). The Homepage of the Atmospheric & Environmental Research, Inc.’s (AER) Radiative Transfer Working Group website states: “The foundation of our research and model development is the validation of line-by-line radiative transfer calculations with accurate high-resolution measurements.” Question 1. I am researching climate models that are validated in this way (from New Zealand and not a LBLRTM user) and would like to know if AER RTWG was acknowledged or cited by IPCC AR4 in any way? A short answer here and reference if applicable would save me some AR4 pain. Question 2. Will AER RTWG be making a submission to IPCC AR5? Richard Cumming, Climate Conversation Group, New Zealand. ————————————————————————————————————————– This was the response from Mike Iacono AER ————————————————————————————————————————– Richard, Our approach is to develop and evaluate radiation models in the context of high-resolution measurements and to collaborate with the dynamical modeling groups that choose to apply our radiation code… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

My thanks to AER.
—————————————————————————————————————————–
Mike,

Thank you very much for your response and thanks also to Jennifer and
Eli (esteinhu?).

I have posted this at two blogs where radiative transfer and heating
is topical:-

Climate Conversation Group (NZ)

https://www.climateconversation.org.nz/2010/10/open-threads-as-promised/#comment-28361

The Inconvenient Skeptic (USA)

http://theinconvenientskeptic.com/2010/11/radiative-heat-transfer-simple-overview/comment-page-1/

There is a lot to be learned in this field and the information you
have provided will help us on the way – especially the AR4 references
and paper citations.

I for one will be watching developments in this arena with interest in
the lead up to AR5.

Cheers to all,

Richard Cumming (NZ)

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Same questions but left at The Inconvenient Skeptic ————————————————————————————————————————— TIS – or anyone, I’m compiling links to RTM’s for this website in New Zealand https://www.climateconversation.org.nz/open-threads/climate/climate-science/#comment-27279 but now have a knowledge gap to cross. I have separated GCM’s into 2 categories: the IPCC RF stable is in “Climate” and Non-IPCC Natural RF is in “Climate Science” as in the link above. My problem now is that I don’t know how RTM’s are implemented in GCM’s i.e do most modeling centres create in-house RTM modules for their AOGCM’s as for example GISS does (I think)? Or do they uplift an off-the-shelf RTM to insert as a module in their GCM? Or is it a combination of both? Or have I got this all wrong? My thinking is that an RTM is untainted by IPCC CO2 driven RF methodology as long as it is outside of the IPCC stable of GCM’s but as soon as an RTM is integrated in an IPCC RF GCM, Hansen’s formulations must come into play somewhere in the code. I have left 2 questions at “AER’s Radiative Transfer Working Group A forum to share information, tips and tricks” http://rtweb.aer.com/forums/index.php?sid=74586ad4edc1ccbe428d04c90aff0f78 the home… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Climate Model Intercomparison – Google Search

CFMIP – Cloud Feedback Model Intercomparison Project

AMIP – Atmospheric Model Intercomparison Project

CMIP – Coupled Model Intercomparison Project

8.1.2.1 – Model Intercomparisons and Ensembles – AR4 WGI Chapter 8

PCMDI Publications – Reviewed Literature

PCMDI Report Series – Report Abstracts

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

PCMDI Report No. 45

An Overview of the Results of the Atmospheric Model
Intercomparison Project (AMIP)

THE SECOND CMIP WORKSHOP

OVERVIEW OF THE COUPLED MODEL INTERCOMPARISON PROJECT (CMIP)

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

CMIP5 Overview Program for Climate Model Diagnosis and Intercomparison (PCMDI) Presented to the IS-ENES 1st General Assembly Barcelona, Spain 26 May 2010 —————————————————————————————————– CMIP5 – Website http://cmip-pcmdi.llnl.gov CMIP5 – Modeling Info Forcing Data 1. Recommended CMIP5 solar forcing data. 2. Greenhouse Gas Concentration data 08 Dec 2009. 3. Emissions data. 14 Jan 2010. 4. Land-use data. 31 Aug 2009. 5. The AC&C/SPARC ozone database. New data 25 Mar 2010. 6. The AMIP Sea Surface Temperature and Sea Ice datasets. 7. Specifications for CFMIP-inspired experiments. [i.e. All the participating models will be forced by the same datasets (including bogus CO2) so a massive incestuous group-think exercise but useful for model intercomparison nevertheless.] CMIP5 – Coupled Model Intercomparison Project Phase 5 – Overview CMIP is a standard experimental protocol for studying the output of coupled ocean-atmosphere general circulation models (GCMs). It provides a community-based infrastructure in support of climate model diagnosis, validation, intercomparison, documentation and data access. The purpose of these experiments is to address outstanding scientific questions that arose as part of the IPCC AR4 (the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change 4th Assessment Report) process, improve understanding of climate, and to provide estimates of… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Surface Air Temperature Simulations by AMIP General Circulation Models: Volcanic and ENSO Signals and Systematic Errors – Intercomparison Results

Department of Meteorology, University of Maryland, August 1997

THE WCRP CMIP3 MULTIMODEL DATASET – Intercomparison Results

AMERICAN METEOROLOGICAL SOCIETY SEPTEMBER 2007

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

GCSS Teams with CFMIP to Understand the Physical Mechanisms of Low Cloud Feedbacks in Climate Models

GEWEX News May 2010

Is There a Missing Low Cloud Feedback in Current Climate Models?

GEWEX News February 2010

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Both articles – MUST READ This is up-to-date, cutting-edge science. Anyone reading these articles will rapidly get up speed on the most decisive issues in current climate science. From: “Is There a Missing Low Cloud Feedback in Current Climate Models?” The net consequence of these biases is that the optical depth of low clouds in GCMs is more than a factor of two greater than observed, resulting in albedos of clouds that are too high. This model low-cloud albedo bias is not a new finding and is not a feature of just these two models. The study of Allan et al. (2007), for example, also noted how the reflection by low-level clouds in the unified model of the UK Meteorological Office is significantly larger than matched satellite observations of albedo, suggesting that this bias also exists in that model. [Note: NIWA has implemented the UKMO UM singled out here] The mean LWP of model clouds that contributed to this in the most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change assessment is close to 200 g/m2, which is also nearly a factor of two larger than observed. The implication of this optical depth bias that… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Thus we have;

CAM4 and CSIRO (AU) – v – UKMO (NZ) and GISS

and

NASA GSFC – v – NASA GISS

Interesting.

Andy
Guest
Andy

Richard C – do you know what the publication status is of these and whether they’ll be making it into the next IPCC report?

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

“do you know what the publication status is of these” They are both GEWEX news articles. The published results will come out of CFMIP (see link up-thread) “and whether they’ll be making it into the next IPCC report?” Oh yes (the CFMIP papers – not the news articles). This study is sorting out models with foundations such as AER’s “The foundation of our research and model development is the validation of line-by-line radiative transfer calculations with accurate high-resolution measurements” from outliers and therefore irrelevant . This is why we are seeing the desperation from GISS (Lacis paper) because they have an in-house problem let alone a wider GCM peer problem. I have not worked out though, the answer to the wider question that is: does CO2 forcing distort an RTM module when integrated in a GCM that is otherwise un-distorted when it is stand-alone. Obviously GISS ModelE is but I have not got as far with CAM. Also, it seems, NIWA has bought a lemon. They would be better now to employ the CAM atmospheric component of the NCAR CCSM climate model along with an NZ tuned NCEP numerical weather prediction model as… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

“They would be better now to employ the CAM atmospheric component of the NCAR CCSM climate model along with an NZ tuned NCEP numerical weather prediction model”

Better still, this model:

The Nested Regional Climate Model

Overview
The Nested Regional Climate Model (NRCM) combines the strengths of NCAR’s Weather Research and Forecasting (WRF) model and NCAR’s Community Climate System Model (CCSM) into an instrument that will allow for fundamental progress on the understanding and prediction of regional climate variability and change. In particular, embedding WRF within CCSM will allow scientists to resolve processes that occur at the regional scale, as well as the influence of those processes on the large-scale climate, thereby improving the fidelity of climate change simulations and their utility for local and regional planning.

http://www.nrcm.ucar.edu/

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Andy.

On reflection the first article is a formal paper that documents the results of the CFMIP-GCSS-CGILS study.

There’s two titles to the article and I missed the second one, also I’ve got a head full of stuff at the moment and these details get lost in the befuddlement.

Minghua Zhang and Christopher Bretherton are at the forefront and there is a companion Zhang 2010 paper that will also stir things up once it is out from behind the paywall:-

“Evaluation of tropical cloud and precipitation statistics of Community Atmosphere Model version 3 using CloudSat and CALIPSO data”

https://www.climateconversation.org.nz/open-threads/climate/#comment-26655

That’s CAM3.

The second article is described as an “analysis” so I’m not sure where it fits in.

Interesting that one Kevin E. Trenberth is GEWEX SSG Chair.

He’s the eternal seeker of heat and esteemed co-author of “Climate Change: Tracking Earth’s Energy” Kevin E. Trenberth and John T. Fasullo

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/328/5976/316?ijkey=HCN3KyFhuaZG.&keytype=ref&siteid=sci

Catalogued at WCRP as “Where has the energy from global warming gone?”

http://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/wcrp/ScienceArchives_index.html

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Also in NCAR & UCAR News Center “Missing” heat may affect future climate change April 15, 2010 BOULDER—Current observational tools cannot account for roughly half of the heat that is believed to have built up on Earth in recent years, according to a “Perspectives” article in this week’s issue of Science. Scientists at the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) warn in the new study that satellite sensors, ocean floats, and other instruments are inadequate to track this “missing” heat, which may be building up in the deep oceans or elsewhere in the climate system. “The heat will come back to haunt us sooner or later,” says NCAR scientist Kevin Trenberth, the lead author. “The reprieve we’ve had from warming temperatures in the last few years will not continue. It is critical to track the build-up of energy in our climate system so we can understand what is happening and predict our future climate.” The authors suggest that last year’s rapid onset of El Niño, the periodic event in which upper ocean waters across much of the tropical Pacific Ocean become significantly warmer, may be one way in which the solar energy has… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Now that Trenberth is GEWEX SSG Chair, perhaps he could set up a Deep Ocean Penetration Experiment (DOPE) to look for the “missing heat”.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

GCSS Report

Panel Report to the 2010 GEWEX SSG Meeting

Full Name (Acronym): GEWEX Cloud Systems Study (GCSS)

Reporting period: 2009

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

The Cloud Feedback Model Intercomparison Project :
Summary of Activities and Recommendations
for Advancing Assesments of Cloud Feedbacks

Sandrine Bony, Mark Webb, Bjorn Stevens,
Chris Bretherton, Steve Klein and George Tselioudis
on behalf of the CFMIP coordination committee,
with the endorsement of the GEWEX Cloud System Studies (GCSS) panel.

Document prepared for the 12th session of the JSC/CLIVAR
Working Group on Coupled Modelling (WGCM) to be held on Sept 22-24 2008

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)
Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

GSFC is a partner in ARM:

The Department of Energy’s Atmospheric Radiation Measurements Program (ARM) complements NASA’s satellite observations of the Earth. ARM employs sophisticated arrays of surface-based sensors to study shortwave and longwave radiation and cloud physics and dynamics.

ARM — Atmospheric Radiation Measurements

Not to be confused with:

AER — Atmospheric & Environmental Research

Major Support for the Development of AER’s Radiative Transfer Models has been provided by:

* Joint Center for Satellite Data Assimilation (JCSDA)
* U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) Atmospheric System Research Program (ASR)
* Jet Propulsion Laboratory through the Tropospheric Emission Spectrometer (TES) program
* U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) Atmospheric Radiation Measurement Program(ARM)
* Department of Defense, Department of Commerce, and NASA through the National Polar-orbiting Operational Environmental Satellite System (NPOESS) program.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

GSFC implements:-

EARTH SYSTEM MODELING FRAMEWORK (ESMF)

See – Plug-and-play modeling

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

New NASA model: Doubled CO2 means just 1.64°C warming Written by Lewis Page, The Register | 08 December 2010 A group of top NASA boffins says that current climate models predicting global warming are far too gloomy, and have failed to properly account for an important cooling factor which will come into play as CO2 levels rise. According to Lahouari Bounoua of NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, and other scientists from NASA and the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), existing models fail to accurately include the effects of rising CO2 levels on green plants. As green plants breathe in CO2 in the process of photosynthesis – they also release oxygen, the only reason that there is any in the air for us to breathe – more carbon dioxide has important effects on them. In particular, green plants can be expected to grow as they find it easier to harvest carbon from the air around them using energy from the sun: thus introducing a negative feedback into the warming/carbon process. Most current climate models don’t account for this at all, according to Bounoua. Some do, but they fail to accurately simulate the… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

CSIRO Climate Model – Google Search

The CSIRO Mk3.5 Climate Model

Hal Gordon, Siobhan O’Farrell, Mark Collier, Martin Dix,
Leon Rotstayn, Eva Kowalczyk, Tony Hirst and Ian Watterson

CAWCR Technical Report No. 021

May 2010

CSIRO Mk3 Climate System Model and Meeting the Strict IPCC AR4 Data Requirements

Improvements in the new Mk3.5 Climate System Model

Collier, M.A., M.R. Dix and A.C. Hirst

CSIRO Marine and Atmospheric Research

Post 2007

INDEX – CSIRO Marine and Atmospheric Research

Climate processes and system modelling

ACCESS – The Australian Community Climate and Earth-System Simulator (AR5)

Enable Australia to contribute appropriate climate projections and scenarios to the Fifth Assessment by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

Provide eventually the opportunity for incorporation of socio-economic processes;

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

New CSIRO Climate Forecast for SE Australia Unbelievable Jennifer Marohsy, October 23rd, 2010 On Thursday the New South Wales Government officially declared the nine-year drought ended. The very next day the CSIRO released a report warning that the ‘current drought’ appears to be at least partly linked to ‘climate change’. The CSIRO report entitled ‘Climate variability and change in south-eastern Australia’ is an initiative of the South Eastern Australian Climate Initiative, SEACI, lead by CSIRO with input from the Bureau of Meteorology and the Murray-Darling Basin Authority. The report forecasts a future decline in rainfall and works from the assumption there is already long term decline. [Snip] Professor Gareth Paltridge in his book ‘The Climate Caper’ (Connor Court, 2009, pg 21) makes reference to an Australian National University study of the various simulations of rainfall as produced by the IPCC models. The simulations of average Australian rainfall apparently range from less than 200mm per year to greater than 1000mm per year. The actual measured value is 450mm. Considering the forecasts for the late 21st Century, apparently more than half the models predict an increase in rainfall over Australia, and the rest predict a… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

[Were the the simulations for ‘Climate variability and change in south-eastern Australia’ from CSIRO Mk3.5 or ACCESS?] Neither initially, they used the results of 15 IPCC GCMs to feed into a hydrological model(?) then moved on to POAMA which is based on ACCESS which in turn is based on UKMO UM/HadGEM3. [oops] From SEACI: “A statistical method has been used to relate the output from 15 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) global climate models to the local rainfall and potential evaporation, and these local climate variables were then used to drive a hydrological model to estimate the changes in streamflow across the region in the future. There is strong consensus between the climate models indicating a reduction in future winter rainfall across the region” “Research indicates that there are changes in the Hadley Cell (and hence changes in the STR) associated with global warming. In particular, the STR has intensified with increasing global surface temperature (Figure 5a). This result implies that the rainfall decline in south-eastern Australia may have some link to global warming. To test this, SEACI researchers conducted simulations of the global climate over recent decades using a global climate… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Project Plan for ACCESS 16 September 2005 The Recommendations Physical parametrisation (b) A consequence of the strong interaction between parametrisations is that the aim of the team ought to be to develop the best possible parametrisation package, rather than a loose conglomerate of individual parametrisations – the so-called “plug and play” approach. This does not preclude the importance of designing parametrisation schemes in a modular fashion, or the possibility of allowing a limited number of options, which may be useful for development purposes. http://www.accessimulator.org.au/file/projplan_access20050916.doc What they have been doing since 2005 Scientific Advisory Group Meeting Minutes They’ve implemented UKMO UM, HadGEM3 – oops No superparameterization (CRM) of cloud microphysics – oops No satellite validated RTM module – oops What they are doing now, 12 August 2010 http://www.accessimulator.org.au/report/sag.html • We have successfully moved to UM+UKCA vn7.3 for stratospheric chemistry work and (for the first time!) have successfully performed an N48 L60 meteorology + stratospheric Chemistry run on the NCI VAYU Machine for 1 year. Results are being assessed for science content, but a first-look seems promising for Ozone. This work has been a joint-effort by the MST, CAT and collaborators at Melbourne University and… Read more »

Andy
Guest
Andy

Main biases include too cold high northern latitudes and excessive Arctic sea ice (especially in North Atlantic), excessive equatorial Pacific ‘cold tongue’ (common model problem), excessive oceanic convection in high-latitude Southern Ocean. Each of these problems is being worked on.

How do they know it’s a bias? It’s a simulation.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

“How do they know it’s a bias?”

They’re comparing the simulations against observed metrics although which ones I don’t know.

It would be good to know which global temperature series for example.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Simulations vs. Observations – Temperatures

Simulations vs. Observations – Precipitation

Anthropogenic Forcing vs. Aerosol Forcing – Model Kludges

Model kludges explained here

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Status of Australian modelling relevant to CMIP5 AR5

Centre for Australian Climate and
Weather Research (CAWCR)/CSIRO

5 Oct. 2010

Modelling systems relevant to AR5

CSIRO Mk3.6 AOGCM
– Existing global AOGCM
– CMIP5 long term only
C-CAM Conformal-Cubic Atmospheric Model
– Existing RCM
– CORDEX
ACCESS Australian Community Climate and Earth System Simulator
– New global AOGCM/ESM
– CMIP5 long term initially

ACCESS coupled model
Aim for AR5 as early as possible 2011

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

RRTM – A Rapid Radiative Transfer Model (AR4)

RRTMG – Google Search (AR5) Gases

NCAR CAM5 – Google Search (AR5) Atmosphere GCM

NCAR CESM1 – Google Search (AR5) Coupled Climate GCM

Adoption of RRTMG in the NCAR CAM5 and CESM1 Global Climate Models (AR5)

ECHAM5 – Max-Planck-Institut für Meteorologie (AR4) GCM

ECHAM6 – Google Search (AR5) GCM

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Radiation: CAM 4 -> CAM5

Andrew Conley

Spring AMWG, Wed Feb 10, 2010

QUANTIFYING CLOUD RADIATIVE EFFECTS BASED ON CLOUDSAT AND CALIPSO

Mueller Et Al 2010?

Meteorological Institute of the University Bonn

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

CAM implements:-

EARTH SYSTEM MODELING FRAMEWORK (ESMF)

See – Plug-and-play modeling

See – Notable Improvements

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

CESM1 Source Code

Browser – Fortran 90

Andy
Guest
Andy

What does this code do?

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

It is the code for the GCM on this Homepage:

https://www.climateconversation.org.nz/2010/10/open-threads-as-promised/#comment-28521

CESM 1.0 incorporates the RRTMG radiative transfer module from AER as reported by Mike Iacono AER here:

https://www.climateconversation.org.nz/2010/10/open-threads-as-promised/#comment-28361

Mike also reports that it will be an AR5 submission and you can find more about that here:

https://www.climateconversation.org.nz/2010/10/open-threads-as-promised/#comment-28380

Given the foundation principles of the RRTMG module and the results it is returning I am using this family of models as a benchmark to assess NIWA’s UKMO UM, GISS ModelE and CSIRO

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

My plan is to try to answer this question: Does CO2 forcing distort an RTM module when integrated in a GCM that is otherwise un-distorted when it is stand-alone? To do this I need to look at the Model Input Data (bottom of page) http://www.cesm.ucar.edu/models/cesm1.0/ Note the warning in red “DO NOT attempt to svn checkout the whole input data repository” i.e. HUGE file By following the link “The CESM1.0 User’s Guide explains how to obtain the subset of input data required for your needs.” We get “CESM1.0 User’s Guide” http://www.cesm.ucar.edu/models/cesm1.0/cesm/cesm_doc/book1.html What I am looking for is the spin-up parameter datasets and is the CO2 dataset the same as that used by ModelE say (the Law Dome-Mauna Loa splice, LD-MD)?. If so, the model will behave similarly to ModelE irrespective of the RTM module used. A look at the solar dataset to see if it is the same Judith Lean variant used by all the others will also be instructive. Clicking on “Downloading input data” We get this warning – believe it: “Note: The input data repository contains datasets for many configurations and resolutions and is well over 1 TByte in total size.… Read more »

Andy
Guest
Andy

Good luck, let us know how it goes.
So do you actually have any working and compiled code, or is it just output data?

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

“So do you actually have any working and compiled code,”

No, there’s no point in downloading and running the code (I haven’t got the grunt or a Linux platform that I think it runs on). It’s just a matter of looking at the code via the browser.

“or is it just output data?”

I’m not interested in output data until I’ve got a handle on the Input parameters and physical formulations. Output results from models are dime-a-dozen but the experience of myself and others going down this road is that spin-up datasets and formulations are either extremely difficult or impossible to access. It depends how open the respective organization is. Forget it for UK Met Office for example but GISS is one of the better ones.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

This was as far as I got with UKMO input parameters:

Climate model parameters and output files

https://results.cpdn.org/repository/parameters#standard

Parameters

http://climateprediction.net/content/parameters

dtheta might be the UKMO AOGCM equivalent to GISS fixed.tar.gz. which is the prime input parameter database but I have not found access to actually look at the datasets in dtheta

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

“My plan is to try to answer this question: Does CO2 forcing distort an RTM module when integrated in a GCM that is otherwise un-distorted when it is stand-alone?” First, we concentrate on the atmosphere model component of CESM and that’s the Community Atmosphere Model (now CAM5) – the equivalent of NIWA’s UM. There’s a pdf that provides essential reading re CAM4 -> CAM5 also RRTMG v Observations. http://www.cesm.ucar.edu/working_groups/Atmosphere/Presentations/2010/conley1.pdf Second, I’ve searched a bit for the CO2 datasets (spin-up and simulation) but have not found any. My initial conclusion is that they don’t exist and that CESM/CAM employ a fundamentally different methodology to GISS ModelE and most other models in the IPCC stable. That is, they don’t spin-up the model using the Law Dome – Mauna Loa dataset. I don’t even think CESM conforms to the CMIP5 specification by using the RCP Database of CO2 ppm values for 2000 – 2100. The reason for my (hasty – don’t quote me on it) conclusion can be demonstrated by looking at this pdf “User’s Guide to the NCAR Community Atmosphere Model (CAM 3.0)” – it will be valid for CAM5 near enough. http://www.cesm.ucar.edu/models/atm-cam/docs/usersguide/usersguide.pdf Search for… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Disappointment

I’ve been able to access the greenhouse gas forcings datasets for CAM 3,4 and 5 via https://svn-ccsm-inputdata.cgd.ucar.edu/trunk/inputdata/ as per Acquiring Input Datasets, CAM5 users guide. Login (if reqd) is username guestuser, password friendly.

Select atm/ cam/ ggas/

Spin-up datasets are:-

# ghg_1800-1999_c050502.nc
# ghg_hist_1765-2005_c091218.nc
# ghg_hist_1850-2005_c090419.nc
# ghg_hist_1850-2005_c090419a.nc
# ghg_hist_1870-2000_c040219.nc

These datasets are the same Law Dome icecore – Mauna Loa splice used by other models in the IPCC stable – very disappointing.

Simulation datasets as specified by the IPCC SRES scenarios are:-

# ghg_ipcc_A1B_1870-2100_c040213.nc
# ghg_ipcc_A1B_1870-2100_c040521.nc
# ghg_ipcc_A1B_1870-2100_c040521.ncdump
# ghg_ipcc_A2_1870-2100_c040213.nc
# ghg_ipcc_B2_1870-2100_c040213.nc
# ghg_ipcc_bau_1870-2100_c040213.nc
# ghg_ipcc_stab_1870-2100_c040213.nc
# ghg_rcp26_1765-2500_c100405.nc
# ghg_rcp45_1765-2500_c100405.nc
# ghg_rcp60_1765-2500_c100901.nc
# ghg_rcp85_1765-2500_c100203.nc

I suspect these are the spin-ups with data (estimates) from the RCP Database appended.

To view these files in Windows requires a utility to present ARM netcdf .nc extension files. A number are available on this page:-

http://science.arm.gov/~cflynn/ARM_Tested_Tools/

So far I have used NCExplorer successfully. The files can be plotted and by clicking on the CO2 plot line, the CO2 concentration in ppm will be returned with a day value. The day value can converted to year by dividing by 365.

Other datasets can be accessed similarly e.g. solar

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

The physics in the model need to be assessed in the context of the Gerlich and Tscheuschner (G&T) 2009 criticism of IPCC RF methodology. From G&T: ——————————————————————— 1.2 The greenhouse e ffect hypothesis Among climatologists, in particular those who are affliated with the Intergovernmental Panel of Climate Change (IPCC)3, there is a “scientifi c consensus” [22], that the relevant mechanism is the atmospheric greenhouse e ffect, a mechanism heavily relying on the assumption that radiative heat transfer clearly dominates over the other forms of heat transfer such as thermal conductivity, convection, condensation et cetera [23{30]. In all past IPCC reports and other such scienti c summaries the following point evocated in Ref. [24], p. 5, is central to the discussion: “One of the most important factors is the greenhouse e ffect; a simplifi ed explanation of which is as follows. Short-wave solar radiation can pass through the clear atmosphere relatively unimpeded. But long-wave terrestrial radiation emitted by the warm surface of the Earth is partially absorbed and then re-emitted by a number of trace gases in the cooler atmosphere above. Since, on average, the outgoing long-wave radiation balances the incoming solar radiation, both the atmosphere and the surface will… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

CESM 1.0 The Community Earth System Model

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

CESM1 implements:-

EARTH SYSTEM MODELING FRAMEWORK (ESMF)

See – Plug-and-play modeling

See – Notable Improvements

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

NCAR Community Atmosphere Model (CAM 5.0)

User’s Guide – html

User’s Guide – pdf

Search or Browse – Namelist Variables

Scientific Description – Physics Formulations CAM3

Scientific Description – Physics Formulations CAM5

Forum – CESM, CAM, Land, Ocean, Ice

ESG – Gateway for datasets, simulation outputs, software tools

RDA – NCAR’s Research Data Archive

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

User’s Guide to the NCAR Community Atmosphere Model (CAM 3.0)

Note: this guide is stil a very useful resource and to date is in the best integrated and finalized format – very instructive.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

First Light on the Ozone Hockeystick Posted on May 9, 2011 by Willis Eschenbach Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach After many false starts, thanks to Steven Mosher and Derecho64 I was able to access the forcings used by the CCSM3 climate model. This is an important model because its successor, the CESM3 model, is going to be used in the laughably named “CIM-EARTH Project.” Anyhow, just as new telescopes have “first light” when they are first used, so here I’ll provide the first light from the CCSM3 ozone forcings. These are the forcings used by the CCSM3 model in their hindcast of the 20th Century (called the “20C3M” simulations in the trade). How well did they do with the hindcast? Not all that well … but that’s a future story. This story is about ozone concentrations. Figure 1 shows the concentration at the highest-altitude of the 18 atmospheric levels, concentrations that were used as one of the forcings for the 20C3M climate model runs. Figure 1. Ozone concentration at about 36 km altitude (23 mi), used as input to the CCSM3 20th century (20C3M) simulations. There are so many things wrong with using… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Climate ‘scientists’ arbitrarily increase fictitious effects of CO2 by 25% in latest model Attention alarmists: the latest version of the world’s most widely used climate model arbitrarily increases the fictitious forcing from CO2 ‘back-radiation’ and non-existent positive-feedbacks from clouds by 25%, from a fallacious 3.2C to 4.0C per doubling of CO2. Journal of Climate 2011 ; e-View doi: 10.1175/JCLI-D-11-00197.1 The Evolution of Climate Sensitivity and Climate Feedbacks in the Community Atmosphere Model A. Gettelman et al Abstract: We use the major evolution of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) Community Atmosphere Model (CAM) to diagnose climate feedbacks, understand how climate feedbacks change with different physical parameterizations, and identify the processes and regions that determine climate sensitivity. In the evolution of CAM from version 4 to version 5, the water vapor, temperature, surface albedo and lapse rate feedbacks are remarkably stable across changes to the physical parameterization suite. However, the climate sensitivity increases from 3.2K in CAM4 to 4.0K in CAM5. The difference is mostly due to (a) more positive cloud feedbacks and (b) higher CO2 radiative forcing in CAM5. The inter-model differences in cloud feedbacks are largest in the tropical trade cumulus… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

CCSM/CAM – Timelines for the IPCC Fifth Assessment Report (AR5)

Operational Plan AR4 -> AR5 quickview pdf

CCSM3 -> CCSM4 quickview pdf

CAM3 -> CAM4 quickview pdf

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

CCSM3/CAM3 in AR4 configuration

TemperatureFailed to mimic 2000 -> 2010 plateau (common model problem)

PrecipitationGood agreement with observation 1900 -> 2000

CAM4/CCSM4 Summary for AR5

CAM4 major component changes
a.Convective momentum transports
b.Convective buoyant parcel dilution
c.‘Freeze drying’ of polar low-cloud
d.Finite volume dynamical core
e.Option of HOMME spectral-element dynamical core

Translates to mostly tropical atmosphere climate improvements
*Reduced strong bias in surface stresses (sub-tropical, mid-latitude)
*Improved mean precipitation simulation and local feature

More frequent extreme precipitation events over land
*Stronger modes of tropical variability (esp. MJO)
*Reduced winter-time polar cloud excess
*Improved transport properties (WACCM, CAM-chem)
*More realistic coupled modes of variability
*El Nino period 2->3-5 years
*Realistic global teleconnectionpatterns

20thCentury Climate Change

Short wave cloud forcing over the 20thCentury (1970-1999 minus 1850)
CCSM3 and CCSM4: low-cloud feedbacks are positive (warming)
Amplified signals at 1 deg. compared to 2 deg.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

CAM Conclusion AR4 -> AR5

• CAM forecasts allows for diagnosing parameterization errors in
different cloud regimes

• CAM3 (AR4)
too much precipitation near ITCZ (deep convection scheme: no
mixing between the parcel and its environment)
PBL too shallow in StCu (dry and surface-driven PBL scheme )

• CAM4-t1 (AR5)
dramatic improvement of precipitation in the early forecast with
the new convection scheme (entrainment of environment)

• CAM4-t5 (AR5)
new PBL scheme produces deeper and better mixed PBLs (PBL
scheme: prognostic TKE with explicit entrainment at top of PBL)

Note: PBL is planetary boundary layer, StCu is stratocumulus

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

An Initial Look At The Hindcasts Of The NCAR CCSM4 Coupled Climate Model Guest post by Bob Tisdale […] Animation 1 The first thing that’s obviously different is that the frequency and magnitude of El Niño and La Niña events of the individual ensemble members do not come close to matching those observed in the instrument temperature record. Should they? Yes. During a given time period, it is the frequency and magnitude of ENSO events that determines how often and how much heat is released by the tropical Pacific into the atmosphere during El Niño events, how much Downward Shortwave Radiation (visible sunlight) is made available to warm “and recharge” the tropical Pacific during La Niña events, and how much heat is transported poleward in the atmosphere and oceans, some of it for secondary release from the oceans during some La Niña events. If the models do not provide a reasonable facsimile of the strength and frequency of El Niño and La Niña events during given epochs, the modelers have no means of reproducing the true causes of the multiyear/multidecade rises and falls of the surface temperature anomalies. The frequency and magnitude of… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION

Year of Tropical Convection (YOTC)

The YOTC Science Plan 2008

A Joint WCRP – WWRP/THORPEX International Initiative

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

Special Collections in AGU Journals

Journal of Geophysical Research – Atmospheres

INDEX

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

Simulations of the Atmospheric General Circulation Using a Cloud-Resolving Model as a Superparameterization of Physical Processes

Marat Khairoutdinov, David Randall, and Charlotte DeMott

Department of Atmospheric Science, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado

AMS Journals Online, May, 2004

Climate Sensitivity and Cloud Response of a GCM with a Superparameterization

Matthew C. Wyant*, Marat Khairoutdinov+, and Christopher S. Bretherton*

*Department of Atmospheric Sciences, University of Washington, Seattle, Washington
+Department of Atmospheric Science, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado

Revised for Geophysical Research Letters, January, 2006

The indirect effects of aerosols as simulated by the SP-CAM multiscale modeling framework using current versus pre-industrial global aerosol distributions

Marat F. Khairoutdinov, Stony Brook University, Stony Brook, NY; and W. W. Grabowski and H. Morrison

13th Conference on Atmospheric Radiation, July 2010

Optical and Radiative Properties of Clouds

(Joint between the 13th Conference on Atmospheric Radiation and the 13th Conference on Cloud Physics)

Joint Session 2, June 2010

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

EARTH SYSTEM MODELING FRAMEWORK (ESMF)

Plug-and-play modeling

SCD News: August 3, 2005

ESMF is being developed and deployed by a multiagency collaboration that includes many of the major geophysical modeling and data assimilation efforts in the U.S. The ESMF core implementation team is based in the Scientific Computing Division of NCAR’s Computational and Information Systems Laboratory

ESMF Production Applications:-

NCAR – CESM1, Community Earth System Model, latest GSM from the following family:

NCAR – CCSM, Community Climate System Model
NCAR – CAM, CCSM’s atmosphere model (the Community Atmosphere Model)

NASA GSFC

NOAA

MIT

Notably absent – NASA GISS

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

Any climate modeling group not implementing ESMF or its equivalent is dead in the water and will be rapidly left behind and irrelevant.

Quentin F
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Quentin F

Dont worry about the NZ temp record for what its worth ..or isnt..:D
Mag reversal coming..increased volcanism..usually precedes the next ice-age.
http://iceagenow.com/Troubling_Global_Volcanic_Activity_on_the_Rise.htm

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

This is sobering Quentin ( or time to hit the bottle – not sure which). “Thus, all this volcanic activity occurring around the world may be signaling the advent of a new magnetic reversal and, as bad as volcanoes are, a magnetic reversal is the very definition of a cataclysm on such an order that it defies the imagination. Think of the sudden end of dinosaurs. I tell you this because of all the blather of biodiversity, predicted species extinctions, and similar nonsense that is now following in the wake of the corpse formerly known as “global warming.” It is the new deception. The real action is that of the Earth and the Sun. Though a predictable solar cycle, the Sun has gone “quiet” of late with few sunspots, the popular name for gigantic magnetic storms seen on the surface of the Sun. They almost always precede cooling cycles of shorter or longer duration and the worst of these are ice ages. We are at the end of the latest interglacial period of 11,500 years and the next ice age will come on with blinding speed. When you tie volcanic activity, earthquakes, tsunamis,… Read more »

co2isnotevil
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co2isnotevil

Cloud feedback has a singular purpose, which is to modulate the ratio of cold power emitted by clouds and warm power radiated by the surface such that the radiation leaving the planet is in balance with incoming solar radiation. It’s not the simple positive/negative feedback amplifier network often used to describe climate feedback, moreover; the pedantic representation models a hypothetical feedback network amplifying incremental forcing power into surface temperatures changes and not the actual physical feedback system.

The basic problem is that IPCC centric climate science fails to distinguish between gain and feedback, by assuming unit open loop gain and by lumping everything else as feedback. More correctly, the effects of atmospheric absorption should be considered gain and not feedback., while the amount of clouds is properly considered feedback. Surface temperatures are a consequence of, and inure to the benefit of, establishing equilibrium.

George

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

Thanks George.

“should be considered’

I agree, but my problem in pursuing this path is that I am constrained by IPCC RF methodology and I have not found a “should be considered’ option except for the RTM’s BEFORE they are integrated into the IPCC centric GCMs.

So I have to take a somewhat pragmatic approach and look at what we have been presented with to date.

“Surface temperatures are a consequence of, and inure to the benefit of, establishing equilibrium.”

This is coming back to bite Hansen and GISS right now (and others).

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

From George at JoNova:

co2isnotevil:
November 24th, 2010 at 11:16 am

The total influence of the GHG effect is significantly less than 33C. Your -18C number (255K) assumes that clouds and ice are still reflecting power maintaining an artificially high albedo of 0.3, where as the no atmosphere albedo would be the same as the 0.12 measured for the Moon. No GHG effect means no atmosphere, no water vapor and no rain, snow, ice or clouds. Using this value, the no atmosphere surface temperature would be about 270K, or about -3C, making the net GHG effect (all water effects + CO2) only about 18C.

In effect, we can say that the influence of the GHG effect is to both heat and cool. It heats the surface by redirecting a fraction of the power emitted by the surface back to it and cools by increased reflection due to clouds, snow and ice. The cooling can be considered to be the difference between the 255K and 270K, or about 15C.

George

cohenite
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cohenite

The idea of a homeostatic climatic process continually reorientating climate towards an equilibrium has of course been made famous by Miskolczi. The role of water in this process is at least starting to get some traction. The slightly chicken and egg debate about forcings and feedbacks in respect of water and particularly the climate dominant form of water, clouds, is perhaps best explained by these papers:

http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0442%282001%29014%3C2976%3APBOTES%3E2.0.CO%3B2

http://www.drroyspencer.com/Spencer_07GRL.pdf

As Spencer et al say: “This indicates that the net (SW + LW) radiative
effect of clouds during the evolution of the composite ISO is
to cool the ocean-atmosphere system during its tropospheric
warm phase, and to warm it during its cool phase.”

That is, clouds are moderators of climate movement in either direction and continually adjust climate towards the eqiuilibrium defined by the water content of the Earth.

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

Thanks Cohenite, much appreciated. Both those linked papers are new to me so I ‘ve got some reading to do. Other than that, this comment and Georges are essential background info for me (believe it or not) when I’m delving in to the RT aspect of the models. “The role of water in this process is at least starting to get some traction” Hooray for that. Hopefully it will be the big thing to come out of 2010 and will be hard for AR5 to ignore (but I’m sure they’ll do their best). I see Judith Curry has some things to say about this in “Water Vapour Mischief” and her Detection and Attribution series, particularly aerosols (Part ll – haven’t read Part lll yet) “But the real head-spinner in the IPCC’s statement cited above is this sentence: “A net forcing close to zero would imply a very high value of climate sensitivity, and would be very difficult to reconcile with the observed increase in temperature.” In other words, the anthropogenic forcing has to be a net positive, otherwise we can’t explain the temperature increase in terms of external forcing. Which, after all, was… Read more »

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Pollution

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Transport Pollution

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How 16 ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world By Fred Pearce Last updated at 10:13 PM on 21st November 2009 [Snip] Emma – dubbed SS Santa by the media – brought Christmas presents to Europe in October and is now en route from Algeciras in Spain to Yantian in southern China, carrying containers full of our waste paper, plastic and electronics for recycling. But it burns marine heavy fuel, or ‘bunker fuel’, which leaves behind a trail of potentially lethal chemicals: sulphur and smoke that have been linked to breathing problems, inflammation, cancer and heart disease. James Corbett, of the University of Delaware, is an authority on ship emissions. He calculates a worldwide death toll of about 64,000 a year, of which 27,000 are in Europe. Britain is one of the worst-hit countries, with about 2,000 deaths from funnel fumes. Corbett predicts the global figure will rise to 87,000 deaths a year by 2012. Part of the blame for this international scandal lies close to home. In London, on the south bank of the Thames looking across at the Houses of Parliament, is the International Maritime Organisation,… Read more »

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The surprisingly complex truth about planes and climate change A new study suggests that planes cause more warming than cars, while ships are cooling enough to counteract them both Snippet If we shift to a 20-year time frame, things look completely different. The short-term impacts have largely died down and the plane looks considerably better – helped along by a quirk of atmospheric chemistry which sees nitrous oxide pollution from the aircraft engines causing cooling during this period by destroying methane in the air. The paper even suggests that for any time frame longer than 20 years, flying is typically greener per kilometre than driving (although when I phoned to check this, one of the authors of the report confirmed my suspicion that this isn’t true in Europe, where fuel-efficient cars are more popular). Of the various forms of transport examined by the researchers, shipping is the other one most markedly affected by short-term climate impacts. Here, however, everything is in reverse because the major short-term effect of shipping is sulfate aerosol pollution. While they remain in the air, these aerosol particles bounce sunlight away from the earth and therefore cause cooling rather… Read more »

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Coal-fired Power Plant Pollution

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New paper: Coal-fired power plants cause global cooling?! Posted by Tom Nelson September 09, 2010 The surprisingly complex truth about planes and climate change | Duncan Clark | Environment | guardian.co.uk Even over a 20-year time frame, shipping pollution still contributes an overall cooling effect – as do electric trains, due to the aerosol pollution kicked out from coal-fired power stations. This throws up a tricky issue for policy makers and industry. If we clean up some kinds of air pollution for the benefit of environmental and human health, then we stand to significantly accelerate global warming in the near-term. [From the comment section of the above article] | guardian.co.uk Cactiform seems to have interpreted the logic of this paper perfectly. Having looked at the paper,it does indeed claim that SO2 pollution causes global cooling, and that coal power stations are therefore [are] helping to stop global warming. Specific Climate Impact of Passenger and Freight Transport – Environmental Science & Technology (ACS Publications) [Access this link via the Tom Nelson link above] High SO2 emissions notably from the electricity produced in coal fired power plants lead to a strong cooling from sulfate aerosols.… Read more »

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Coal Power Plant Scrubbers – Google Search

Flue-gas desulfurization – Wikipedia

Air Quality Scrubbers Help Coal Plants Move Forward – Environmental Leader

Coal-fired power plant, scrubbers could cost $200mn – POWER-GEN …

EPA Says Scrubbers Necessary for Health Protection Under Coal Conversion Plan [EPA press release – July 14, 1977]

The Need for Additional U.S. Coal-Fired Power Plants – ASME

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

Supreme Court to Hear Global Warming Case Against Power Companies Written by Lee Ross, FoxNews | 06 December 2010 The Supreme Court announced Monday it will give further consideration to a closely-watched lawsuit filed by environmentalists, eight states and New York City blaming the problems associated with global warming on the carbon dioxide output of five major power companies. An ultimate judgment against the energy providers could lead to dramatic changes in the energy marketplace and ripple into other industries. But the high court’s decision to give the matter closer attention makes that possibility less likely. In 2009, the Second Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that the plaintiffs could move forward with their lawsuit alleging the companies were creating a public nuisance by releasing excessive amounts of carbon dioxide into the air. That decision “sets a major precedent in that it gives citizens — in the absence of climate change legislation — the right to take action against big business pollution,” according to a statement released last September by Open Space Institute, one three environmental groups that joined the lawsuit along with New York City and Connecticut, New York, California, Iowa, New… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

From the Fox News article.

[Snip]

The states claim the power companies have caused irreparable environmental harm by allowing its plants to produce excessive levels of carbon dioxide. They claim people have died because of their actions and others have been directly impacted by the resulting smog, decreased fresh water supplies, land erosion and rising sea levels. Their suit was filed before the 2007 decision in Massachusetts v. EPA and the Second Circuit’s 2009 ruling came before the EPA had started to regulate carbon emissions.

[Snip]

In his brief, acting Solicitor General Neal Katyal said recent actions by the EPA show the feds are now regulating carbon emissions.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/12/06/supreme-court-hear-global-warming-case-power-companies/#ixzz17T09Va8f

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

Arrests derail chain gang’s power station pollution protest

December 6, 2010 – smh

Sixty-seven people were arrested near one of the nation’s biggest greenhouse gas polluters in the Hunter Valley yesterday.

About 150 protesters spent the weekend near Muswellbrook at ”Climate Camp” to draw attention to Macquarie Generation’s coal-fired Bayswater power station, one of the nation’s largest and the proposed site for a second baseload power plant.

A group of the protesters knocked over a fence yesterday and chained themselves to the power station’s railway track, used to transport coal.

A police spokesman said about 50 officers were sent to manage the protest. The 67 people were charged with a range of offences that related to anti-social or criminal behaviour. On Saturday two other men were arrested after allegedly entering private property and chaining themselves to a coal conveyor.

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

E Timor counts costs of Chinese power plants December 15, 2010 – smh DARWIN: The construction of two second-hand Chinese power plants in East Timor is an escalating environmental and safety disaster that has been hit by delays and cost blow-outs, the project’s supervisors say. The government in Dili has removed the Beijing-owned Chinese Nuclear Industry 22nd Construction Company from responsibility for building the plants and has hired an Indonesian company to finish the work. Puri Akraya Engineering Limited was registered with the Hong Kong Companies Register only five weeks before it was secretly given a contract expected to multiply the cost of building the plants from US$91 million to US$353 million. A confidential report in September by the Italian joint-venture company Electroconsult and Bonifica, which was hired last year to supervise the project, estimates the project will now cost at least $US629 million, almost double the original price. The report, obtained by the non-government organisation La’o Hamutuk in Dili, revealed a deteriorating quality of work, safety practices that were ”far below regulations” and acts of ”environmental negligence” at the plant sites. The report listed 14 serious ”issues of concern” and eight more… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

Activated Carbon

Applications

Mercury scrubbing

Activated carbon, often impregnated with iodine or sulfur, is widely used to trap mercury emissions from coal-fired power stations, medical incinerators, and from natural gas at the wellhead. This carbon is a specialty product costing more than US$4.00 per kg. However, it is often not recycled.
——————————————————————————————————————–
World-first green technology has vast market potential

Wednesday, 8 December 2010, 10:38 am
Press Release: Carbonscape

MEDIA RELEASE

December 8, 2010

Carbonscape Cracks One-Step Production of Activated Carbon From Waste

World-first green technology has vast market potential

BLENHEIM, NEW ZEALAND: New Zealand charcoal technology company Carbonscape™ has become the first in the world to pioneer a new green technology – a one-step process to cheaply produce highly porous charcoal.

Known as Activated Carbon (often described as AC), this form of charcoal has a huge surface area, typically measuring more than 500 square metres per gram.

This large surface area gives AC a diverse range of uses, including cleaning contaminated soil and water, and capturing significant amounts of carbon dioxide emissions from power stations.

Throughout the world AC is used in such diverse industries as metallurgy, chemistry, agriculture, timber processing, gold extraction, nuclear energy, pharmaceuticals, petrochemicals, medicine and food processing.

Continues……..

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

Electricity generation: NZ and selected OECD countries Parliamentary support, Research papers 7 December 2004 [Snip] Background For year ended March 2004 an estimated 40,006GWh of electricity was generated in New Zealand, which was derived from the following sources:1 Hydro 61.6 percent (approximately three-quarters generated in the South Island) Gas 21.5 percent Coal 7.1 percent Geothermal 6.3 percent Others 3.5 percent (biogas, industrial waste, wood & wind, including cogeneration) [Snip – see Figure 1.] In addition, some energy commentators believe that coal will also play a greater role as a generation fuel.8 [Snip] Gas Around 41% of New Zealand’s available gas is used for electricity generation, including cogeneration. [Snip] Coal Coal resources occur widely in New Zealand. Total in ground coal resources are estimated at approximately 15 billion tonnes, of this 8.6 billion tonnes is judged to be economically recoverable. About 90 percent (by weight) of the economically recoverable coal is located in the South Island. Of the economically recoverable resources, about one third is in existing mines, while the remainder could be mined without significant investigatory work.16 As a generation fuel, coal provides five percent of New Zealand’s electricity supply needs. This compares… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

From “The carbon detectives” – NZH

United States success in reducing acid rain shows how tracking what comes out of a factory – as well as what goes in – can pay off. The EPA began requiring companies to continuously measure the sulphur dioxide and nitrogen oxides coming from their smokestacks in 1995. They reported as often as every hour in the world’s first large-scale emissions-trading effort. By 2006 the US had cut sulphur dioxide emissions by 40 per cent and nitrogen oxides by almost 50 per cent, a 2007 EPA assessment found.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-changing-world/news/article.cfm?c_id=1502962&objectid=10694702

The rest of the article is about CO2 emissions measurement and trading i.e. a money-go-round

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Air Pollution SO2 – Google Search

Note this

ANCILLARY BENEFITS OF GHG MITIGATION IN EUROPE: SO2, NOX, PM10
{PM10 – Particulate Matter)

Why don’t they could forget GHG mitigation and focus on real pollution? Unnecessary GHG mitigation represents an opportunity cost for real pollution mitigation efforts

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Development Pollution

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

India’s ‘Dr No’ battles for eco-friendliness

5:30 AM Saturday Dec 18, 2010 – NZH

India’s Environment Minister has blocked the construction of mines, power plants and dams. He’s held up a new airport and describes diesel cars as criminal. He’s even taken Harry Potter to task for promoting threatened owls as pets.

Continues…….

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Just 18 months into the job, Jairam Ramesh has turned a once-marginal Environment Ministry into a powerful gatekeeper on India’s road to prosperity.

He’s been called an eco-crusader, a “Dr No” of development and even a buffoon, angering so many investors and politicians that there are constant rumours of his impending dismissal. But his tenacity has fuelled an environmental debate that many say is long overdue.

After two decades of unbridled development, India risks becoming a victim of its own success. It is now the world’s third-largest greenhouse gas emitter, with rivers the World Bank has described as fetid sewers and cities among the world’s most polluted.

“Many people in India, particularly the elitist classes, still think ‘grow now, clean later’. We cannot repeat the mistakes of other countries,” Ramesh said.

“I’m no eco-evangelist, but are we serious about implementing our environmental laws or not?”

The US-educated technocrat-turned-politician insists his job, adversarial by nature, is to help correct India’s development course by enforcing long-ignored environmental laws.

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Environment Pollution

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

Green taxes: a brief overview Parliamentary support, Research papers Andrew Morrison Economist, Parliamentary Library February 1996 Executive Summary • Green taxes are one of a variety of policy measures designed to control activities which affect the environment. • They consist of charges on pollution or on whatever causes the pollution, paid for by producers and/or consumers. • These charges act as an incentive on producers and consumers to reduce their dependence on the taxed item. • Other environmental policy measures include regulatory instruments, suasive instruments and economic instruments besides green taxes. • These policy measures can be evaluated in terms of their environmental effectiveness, economic efficiency, equity and acceptability. • Most economists believe that green taxes and other economic instruments generally achieve environmental objectives more cost-effectively than regulatory instruments. • However, exceptions exist, and detailed study is required to determine the optimal policy for any specific environmental problem. • Furthermore, empirical evidence is inconclusive. This is the result of limited data and the fact that most green taxes are secondary parts of wider regulatory structures and have charges set too low to have any marked effects on incentives. • Green taxes and other… Read more »

Mike Jowsey
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Mike Jowsey

“Our over-consumption is alleged to cause global warming. We are guilty because we are prosperous, so we supposedly owe reparations to the poor nations.”
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=556625&p=1

Richard C (NZ)
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Richard C (NZ)

U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon announced that “we need to fundamentally transform the global economy, based on low-carbon, clean-energy resources.”

Yeah right – this man is evil personified.

The good news is that the UN has got off-side with some Green factions (not all) after the Cancun “process” extension.

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