NZ to see Monckton again in 2013

Lord Monckton

Lord Monckton of Brenchley has agreed to visit New Zealand next year for a lecture tour.

The Australians just invited him back, and he has agreed to include NZ. Dates have not been set, but planning is under way, under the expert guidance of Esther Henderson, from Climate Realists.

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Richard TreadgoldAnthropogenic Global CoolingAndyRichard C (NZ)Richard Christie Recent comment authors
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Romelly Cruise
Guest
Romelly Cruise

Yaaaayyyyhh..! Lord Monckton is coming back. Can hardly wait. New Zealand’s good people were taken first & further down the road than many on this lost cause, to influence Surface Temperatures Globally with a Tax.

Richard Treadgold
Guest

this lost cause, to influence Surface Temperatures Globally with a Tax.

Yes, no novel with this premise would be taken seriously.

Romelly Cruise
Guest
Romelly Cruise

It goes to show what delightful, public spirited people Kiwis are, with a well developed sense of community and themselves. Always ready to help in a crisis. I’m sure they’ll be as quick to adapt as the truth filters in and leave those who would exploit their good nature behind.

Mike Jowsey
Guest
Mike Jowsey

Typo – “protagonist of global warming” should be “opponent of global warming”?

Protagonist:
Definition: person who takes the lead; central figure of narrative
Synonyms: advocate, central character, champion, combatant, exemplar, exponent, hero, idol, lead, lead character, leader, mainstay, prime mover, principal, standard-bearer, warrior

Richard Treadgold
Guest

Thanks Mike. The wording changed and left it ambiguous. Fixed.

PeterM
Guest
PeterM

Hi Richard

On his last visit Moncktons treatment by NZ’s largely socialist media was churlish in the extreme.
His visit focused attention on the ridiculous ETS. In the last year millions of dollars have gone to waste and electricty costs have increased. The ETS is the darling of the greens and other fellow travellers and in the rush to exploit carbon credits 1.7m ha of forestry land has come under foreign control. The irony here is the greens/labour anti asset sale stance.
All this has been ignored by the media and the public is largely unaware of the waste that is caused by the ETS. I hope you can help with more detailed background material on the subject so we can help pave the way for a successful Monckton visit.

Bluebottle
Guest
Bluebottle

Monckton is a level-headed moderate?
Watch him here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH6_UgAmdxo&feature=related
pretending that he has read the Copenhagen treaty in advance – “I have read that treaty” – and then pretending that it’s all really about a secret UN plot to take over the world. It’s mad conspiracy stuff.
He is indeed eloquent and intelligent, yes, but he’s as far from level-headed as you can get. One day his adoring supporters will wake up to the fact that they have been had by a most unusual and eccentric man who lives a Boy’s Own fantasy in his head that he’s going to save the world. He’s just another Walter Mitty with grandiose ideas, all of which have him at their centre. He’ll tell you what you want to hear, and say it beautifully, so long as you admire him for it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbW-aHvjOgM&feature=plcp

Richard Treadgold
Guest

If you actually read the article you cite, you find that Monckton said moderately “there are clear irregularities” in Obama’s [birth] status. It was the journalist who went from there to “he really does believe that Barack Obama faked his birth certificate to become US President,” and used that as an excuse to accuse him of smoking crack.

Do you see the disconnect there, Bluebottle? Do you want to comment on the moderate way in which Monckton employs scientific fact in discussing global warming?

Richard Treadgold
Guest

Professor Garnaut’s words are on the screen in that link. Read them. They fulfill the requirements of the National Socialist party. They define fascism, Simon. Do you agree that “specially trained philosopher-ecologists will either rule themselves or advise an authoritarian government?

Richard Treadgold
Guest

Goodness – you haven’t read the Copenhagen treaty, have you? It contains everything that Monckton said it did. No pretense was necessary.

Thank you for getting to the party early, though, and confirming that we’ll have to suffer through a green backlash to his visit next year. Heard of climate science?

Bluebottle
Guest
Bluebottle

Richard, thank you for your responses. You are quick to paint my comments as “green” backlash. I hope you will concede that it is possible for me to disagree with you about Monckton yet not be a socialist or a greenie. My comments were inspired only by your choice of the words “level-headed moderate” to describe this peculiar man. I judge people by their friends as well as by their enemies and there is no doubt that Monckton assiduously courts the company of friends who are neither level-headed nor moderate. Conspiracy theorists increasingly permeate the public debate on how we should respond to climate change and offer little more than fear and fevered imagination when it comes to resolving that question. Monckton may be a poster-boy for you, but he’s also a poster-boy for conspiracists, Birthers, survivalists and many others. He is a former deputy leader of the UK Independence Party (Ukip), which has clearly flirted with the fringes of far-Right racist, anti-Muslim sentiment in Britain to recruit members. Go back to the Independent article and read the closing comments: “A spokesman for Ukip said last night that Lord Monckton’s insistence in the… Read more »

Simon
Guest
Simon

Ever heard of Godwin’s law? As soon as you invoke it you open yourself up to ridicule. The Nazi Party were pro-technology but anti-science, nuclear physics was seen as Jewish science and therefore incorrect. Hitler, Goebbels et. al. had all sorts of mad theories that he ordered his scientists to study with no hope of success. I very much doubt that this is the hypothetical future that Prof. Garnaut was alluding to.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

“Monckton is not level-headed or moderate” lev·el·head·ed Pronunciation (lvl-hdd) adj. Characteristically self-composed and sensible. mod·er·ate Pronunciation (mdr-t) adj. 1. Being within reasonable limits; not excessive or extreme: a moderate price. 2. Not violent or subject to extremes; mild or calm; temperate: a moderate climate. 3. a. Of medium or average quantity or extent. b. Of limited or average quality; mediocre. 4. Opposed to radical or extreme views or measures, especially in politics or religion. In the context of the climate debate (no idea of his other political views), Monckton is a luke-warmer i.e. he subscribes to the idea aCO2 produces warming but that it is inconsequential and he supports that view by theoretical mathematics. That puts him middle-of-the-road, medium, average, “being within reasonable limits; not excessive or extreme”, a moderate as are say, Anthony Watts and David Evans from what I can make out. The extreme view at the other end of the spectrum to CAGW alarmists are those that prove that rather than being “heat trapping”, CO2 is in fact a very efficient energy transfer medium and that CO2 levels of 10,000 ppm didn’t result in catastrophic warming (or any warming). Monckton… Read more »

Stanley
Guest
Stanley

Bluebottle, your sound-bites aren’t convincing in the absence of some specific claim that Monckton takes some position which you can show to be untenable. UKIP “has clearly flirted with the fringes of far-Right racist, anti-Muslim sentiment in Britain to recruit members”. Does this mean any more than the fact that UKIP has a policy to severely reduce immigration? Isn’t that a valid viewpoint in a democracy? (I note yesterday’s story that the most common baby boy’s name in England & Wales during the past 12 months, and the past 5 years, has been “Mohammed”). What am I to take from the assertion that Monckton is “a poster-boy for conspiracists, Birthers, survivalists and many others”. I don’t know much about Birthers, but survivalism seems sensible enough. What else? “Boys Own” fantasy? Walter Mitty? Where on earth do you get all this?Do you have any argument with what he SAYS, or only with who he IS? I’ve heard Monckton speak and watched him on the tube and read many of his mathematical analyses of the climate alarmist case. Time and again he has been able to substantiate his position, despite initial derision from climate alarmists.… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

“…..mad theories……with no hope of success”

Doesn’t geo-engineering fit that description Simon?

“I very much doubt that this is the hypothetical future that Prof. Garnaut was alluding to”

Then perhaps he was alluding to the social engineering in this one:-

Effective World Government Will Be Needed to Stave Off Climate Catastrophe

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2012/03/17/effective-world-government-will-still-be-needed-to-stave-off-climate-catastrophe/

Bluebottle
Guest
Bluebottle

Richard, Thank you for your more considered response. I don’t know about Watts but we seem to agree that David Evans, at least, is at the far end of things with his conspiracy theories about “a small number of European banking families”, particularly two with Jewish names, plotting with environmentalists to introduce a global gold currency that they will control and so subject the world to financial slavery. As you know, it’s that sort of loopy and distasteful stuff that prompted Andrew Bolt to distance himself recently from the Galileo Movement. But doesn’t Christopher Monckton essentially offer the same basic story, with a switcheroo that substitutes the UN and political slavery for the Jewish bankers and financial slavery? We’ve heard it all before: whether it be the Yellow Menace, nuclear energy, influenza pandemics or extra-terrestrials, it’s still wallowing in the fear-mongering fantasy category: and that’s not moderate, that’s both extreme and no less alarmist than any other “we’ll all be rooned” doomsday scenario. However, I can see that you will not accept that, since you agree with Monckton about the secret UN global domination conspiracy allegedly hidden within the Copenhagen Treaty and climate… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

It took 32 authors to write this “policy article” (appeared in ‘Science’) that Gary Stix quotes from in his Scientific American opinion piece:- ***************************************************************************************************************** ‘Navigating the Anthropocene: Improving Earth System Governance’ Stockholm Resilience Centre, Stockholm University “Research for Governance of Social-Ecological Systems” http://www.stockholmresilience.org/publications/artiklar/navigatingtheanthropoceneimprovingearthsystemgovernance.5.1fc8315a135cb03b5591aa7.html Publication review Science assessments indicate that human activities are moving several of Earth’s sub-systems outside the range of natural variability typical for the previous 500,000 years. “Human societies must now change course and steer away from critical tipping points in the Earth system that might lead to rapid and irreversible change. This requires fundamental reorientation and restructuring of national and international institutions toward more effective Earth system governance and planetary stewardship. We propose building blocks of such a new institutional framework” ***************************************************************************************************************** They (“We”, all 32 of them) “require” a “fundamental reorientation and restructuring” (“Seven Building Blocks”) on the basis of a flimsy premise. Seems more than a little arrogant and extreme wouldn’t you say Simon? Apparently the 2012 Rio Conference offered “a crucial test of whether political will exists to bring about these urgently needed changes” ***************************************************************************************************************** Constitutional Moment The world saw a major transformative shift in governance after… Read more »

Bluebottle
Guest
Bluebottle

Stanley, Yes it does mean more than “that UKIP has a policy to severely reduce immigration”. Just Google “Ukip and racist”. Check Wikipedia: Ukip’s founder, Alan Sked, quit the party after four years because he felt “they are racist and have been infected by the far-right”. Today, it is a party twisted by its own internal ideological contradictions. On one hand it wants to assert British “independence, identity and traditions”, on the other it opposes ethnic nationalism. Immigration, it claims, is “a deliberate attempt to water down the British identity”. One recent report noted that Ukip had entered into alliance with the French National Front and the Austrian Freedom Party. http://cep.rhul.ac.uk/cep-blog/2012/6/20/ukip-in-alliance-with-marine-le-pen-and-the-austrian-freedom.html That report links to this alliance’s poster – a white sheep kicking a Turkish/Moroccan sheep from Flanders. If it walks like a duck . . . or a sheep. Fear of foreigners, xenophobia: this, too, is Monckton’s heartland. You say he’s been proved right time and again. Au contraire, the opposite is so if you care to look with open eyes. Yes he is brilliant – at making stuff up around grains of truth, at persuading other people that he is credible… Read more »

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

“I don’t know about Watts” – Ha! Blog stats 123,600,210 views You say:- “….we seem to agree that David Evans, at least, is at the far end of things with his conspiracy theories about “a small number of European banking families”, particularly two with Jewish names, plotting with environmentalists to introduce a global gold currency that they will control and so subject the world to financial slavery” No we we don’t agree. All I said was that David is a luke-warmer “from what I can gather”, how you read the rest wrt him from that and ascribed my agreement to it is beyond me but perhaps you would care to link to his writings (that you supposedly quote) so I can make up my own mind? But you seem to have confused David Evans with Malcolm Roberts with your quote:- http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/happy_to_help_those_who_ask_but_not_people_who_peddle_this/ Then you say:- “…..doesn’t Christopher Monckton essentially offer the same basic story, with a switcheroo that substitutes the UN and political slavery for the Jewish bankers and financial slavery?” Not quite. Its a case of the UN (and sycophants) seeking to extend a UN charter to a purpose for which it is… Read more »

Andy
Guest
Andy

I love all these Guardian readers that bang on about “far right” and “racism”

Here’s Pat Condell having a mighty fine rant about the Guardian and it’s foaming at the mouth ugliness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOgV6Fvc8wc&feature=player_embedded

Bluebottle
Guest
Bluebottle

Yes, I know who Watts is and how popular his blog is, but I haven’t taken the trouble to seriously assess whether he falls into the conspiracist camp – although I have seen enough of his views on the land temperature record in the US to expect that he does. As for Evans, I most certainly have not confused his views with Roberts’s – indeed, I suspect the latter has been singing from the songsheet of the former. Yes, you can read Evans for yourself here. http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/manufacturing_money_and_warming.pdf Whatever you think of his economic and historical analyses, it is framed within time-worn references to the “goldsmiths” and the cabal of “banking families”, replete with “parasite” imagery. Only he knows his own mind, but I am familiar with that terminology and can say that at the very least he has been most careless in using it. Some quotes re what he calls the paper aristocracy or banksters (a word with odious origins in the early 20th century): p9 “They buy politicians by the truckload. The banksters have even killed the occasional thorn in their side—including, probably, two US presidents, Lincoln and Garfield.” p32 “There are… Read more »

Nick
Guest
Nick

Hi all,
Perhaps if Monckton cannot find anyone to debate when he returns to NZ he could debate himself.

Have a look at the whole series if you have time but the first minute and a half of the below gives the general idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xx5h1KNMAA&feature=player_embedded

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Having studied banking as part of business studies, Evans’ account is as much historical as it is a personal take (I’m referring to the “parasite” snippet). The removal of the gold standard and replacement with promissory notes (the govt promises to pay unless it’s insolvent – Obama’s US would be except for debt extension) means as Evans states “[m]oney was thereby manufactured, or created out of thin air”. It was with the gold standard too but at least there was some tangible security. Meanwhile, where’s the gold? Evans is on-the-money, so to speak, there too. If the moneyed class prefers the security of gold then that’s probably a better bet than the promissory notes of the EU or the US. Equally, Evans is on-the-money re carbon taxes, cap and trade and banking (and insurance I would add) involvement too. Carbon taxes and the UN’s Fast Start and Green Climate Fund (or would be in the latter case) are the biggest diversions of wealth since Roosevelt outlawed private US gold ownership (except for those privileged few) with the Gold Standard Act.. The unnecessary carbon charge is now factored into economic investment decisions in a… Read more »

Richard Treadgold
Guest

Bluebottle, on global warming, Monckton has a level-headed moderate approach, regardless of your claims on other issues.

Andy
Guest
Andy

Maybe you could debate Monckton, Nick. I am sure you would both have lots of peer reviewed studies that you could discuss together.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

I’m wondering Bluebottle, how do you peg your extreme-moderate-extreme spectrum?

That is, where do the respective positions of Monckton and Shearman/Wayne Smith fit in that spectrum?

I’ve pegged Monckton as moderate in the climate debate by virtue of his luke-warm stance, where do you place him in your climate debate spectrum and why?

The quote in the screenshot that Simon links to (a Monckton presentation) is from ’The Climate Change Challenge and the Failure of Democracy‘, which Shearman co-authored with Joseph Wayne Smith and I reproduce it here:-

“Government in the future will be based upon . . . a supreme office of the biosphere. The office will comprise specially trained philosopher/ecologists. These guardians will either rule themselves or advise an authoritarian government of policies based on their ecological training and philosophical sensitivities. These guardians will be specially trained for the task”. [p. 134]

Where does that perspective fit in your spectrum Bluebottle?

The respective position in your spectrum of those 2 pegs will define your own perspective wont it?

Richard Christie
Guest
Richard Christie

I can’t wait, truly I can’t.
Will he be bringing his pals Big Ears and Noddy with him?
It’ll be comedy gold.

Richard C (NZ)
Guest
Richard C (NZ)

Are you a big fan of Big Ears and Noddy, Richard Christie?

The reason I ask is that I assume you’re a grown man and it would be an odd obsession

Or have I got my assumption wrong?

It’s possible – the climate modelers have.

Andy
Guest
Andy

I take it that you will be coming to one of these talks then Richard Christie? That’s great! We can all meet up afterwards for a beer and have a jolly good chinwag old chap

Andy
Guest
Andy

Maybe Monckton could debate Dave Frame? Now that would be something worth listening to.

Anthropogenic Global Cooling
Guest
Anthropogenic Global Cooling

Noddy & Bigears? Ahh, you mean your buddies Cecil and Parrot.

It certainly will be comedy gold watching them coughing and spluttering their way through another futile attempt to prove feedbacks without the tropospheric hotspot – as it always is. When they fail, all three of you could start hurling abuse in an attempt to cover up your total ignorance.

BTW, have you found that hot spot yet Dick? I hear these’s overwhelming evidence for AGW, but there still seems to be something missing. Funny that.

Richard Treadgold
Guest

Bluebottle, You say I’m “quick to paint your comments as “green” backlash.” Well, that’s exactly what it sounds like. As I said: If you actually read the article you cite, you find that Monckton said moderately “there are clear irregularities” in Obama’s [birth] status. It was the journalist who claimed “he [Monckton] really does believe that Barack Obama faked his birth certificate to become US President,” and used that to accuse Monckton of smoking crack. I was quick to see the level of your condemnation went beyond the evidence. What you said was rather stupid. I hope you will concede that it is possible for me to disagree with you about Monckton yet not be a socialist or a greenie. My comments were inspired only by your choice of the words “level-headed moderate” to describe this peculiar man. Absolutely. But your initial comment, which consisted of a single question: “Monckton is a level-headed moderate?” did not exclude the topic of global warming, or any topic. You appeared to disagree with everything Monckton stands for. I judge people by their friends as well as by their enemies Well done. Only, the topic here is… Read more »

Andy
Guest
Andy

Do you think someone who wants to limit immigration is “racist”?

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